Late Merc, Early trans ('39), cast bellhousing adaptor (Ford), 9 1/2" clutch which was a custom job to get the late pressure plate to mate to the big splines on an early box. Happens intermittently and started within the last ten miles of driving. Push the clutch in and after a few seconds there is a noise. Not so much a muffled squeal as a really high frequency vibration. Like something you would get from a shaft that was spinning within a sloppy bushing - which might be what's happening. Read on. Seems to happen more when I'm rolling to a stop and push the clutch in with the car in gear. Not so much when I'm leaving a light and push the clutch in to get it in gear - but it does sometimes happen then too. Transmission is brand new and I have full faith in the rebuild. Done by the HAMB's TV. Came with a new throwout bearing too. Two suspect areas: 1) I did not replace the bushing in the flywheel. Is there a bearing conversion for this or did I imagine it? 2) I do not have any sort of anti-chatter rods. Don't know if that noise is even discribing clutch chatter though. 3) Suppose the throwout bearing could already be bad? I say not likely since I might have as little as 50 miles on the car so far...probably less. Seems like if it were the flywheel bushing it would happen with the car idling and not in gear too? Nevermind. I just reread this and if I am idling with my foot off of the clutch then I am spinning the trans and the bushing isn't in play. I think I just found my problem? Right now the noise is a minor annoyance. I can get it shifted and out of gear to stop fast enough to avoid it most of the time. But I know it isn't right and I don't want to roach something out because I was too lazy to pull the motor and trans apart. Could anything be determined by opening the inspection cover? I'll say right now that if I have to pull them apart the inside of the bellhousing is going to get a nice thick coat of white paint. I saw Bruce mention this and was bummed that I had already bolted everything together - I've been wanting to do that ever since so maybe this is my chance. Damnit. It's that little bronze bushing isn't it?
If you haven't already, you might want to read flatheadv8.org/rumblest/clutch.pdf for some good tips on the pilot and throwout bearings. I haven't used either tip (had mine together before I saw them) but they sound reasonable. You also might want to try to get at least one chatter rod on there too. - alchemy
Sounds to me like the pilot bearing. I'd pull them apart and rebuild the ***embly. You should also take a hard look at your pressure plate while your in the rebuild mode. If you have a bearing starting to give you problems.. sooner or later you'll be taking the engine and ****** apart. Better now than on the way to the Hamb Drags. Good luck taking the pilot bearing out. PIA... I had to literally chisel it out after trying all the tricks suggested. I'm going to make a tool just for this someday.
I'm not 100% sure when the noise is and when it ain't. Three modes: 1. Clutch depressed, car in gear. 2. Clutch depressed, car in neutral. 3. Clutch pedal down just enough so throwout is pushed agaist fingers but not yet moving them. Also, 1&2 repeated with car rolling (When car is rolling, note that the sound might be a siren behind you...). Pilot: If I remember correctly, on early flatheads at least the cars got roller bearings, trucks got bronze oilite bushing. They interchange, and modern sealed bearings are available. Rumbleseat's info on modern throwouts without enough grease is interesting--nothing's more fun than taking apart a torque tube car to replace a five dollar part. You should be able to watch some of the clutch action through the little window with a good penlight, with especial focus on relationship of noise to movement of throwout. If you sustain the noise, does it start to get worse??
Grim, I'm running a 50 8BA with 47 open drive line trans. Sounds like we have basically the same setup. I think you and I kind of followed each other's build along and paid attention to what Bruce said. Anyway, if you do find its the pilot bearing, you can get the ball bearing kind from any local bearing shop, like I did. Use these numbers for reference. Its the A7600 part. According to Macs the A7600 pilot bearing was used by Ford from 1928 till 1963. Crazy. Mike
Atch is on the right track, I think...you didn't put on MUFFLERS, did you??!? And I thought this was going to be hard to fix!!
This sounds like EXACTLY what heppend on my '54 Buick: factory 264, 3spd manual, factory roller bearing in for the input shaft. Had the same kind of noise--kinda sounded like a flapping and/or chattering. Never really noticed exactly when/what conditions it occured in--stating up, shutting down, idling at the light, etc. Turned out to be the clutch disc. You know the little coil spings that are on the clutch disc? They're held in place in a sheetmetal housing, which is riveted in place. One of those rivets failed on mine, and that little metal housing came apart--but not all the way apart. The spring forced it around a little. To make a long story longer, nothing ever really failed--the car ran and drove. The big problem presented itself when the car wouldn't go into gear sometimes--including at traffic lights, or starting up, etc. What finally ended up happening was that from the metal housing and spring rubbing on the flywheel, metal shavings found their way into the roller pilot bearing. The pilot bearing at itself, which caused the input shaft on the trans to eat its bearing. That's why it wouldn't go into gear. The Buick is a torque-tube set-up, too, so I feel your pain. But don't drive the car until you look around in there and find the problem. The fix now will keep it from being a huge problem later. -Brad
Are you sure its the clutch? My flathead had a rattle for about 6 months that I had a hard time locating. It turned out to be the bendix in the starter moter. I found out by removing the starter and push starting the car. Noise was gone...
Ive had the same thing in my Work truck..It WAS the Pilot bearing..The replaced it and Problem solved.
From what you describe it sounds like the throwout bearing. Reason being is the throwout bearing only has a load on it when the clutch pedal is depressed. Bad bearing + load = noise. You might also try putting the rear up on jackstands with the wheels off the ground. Then you may get a better idea of exactly when the noise is occouring with the engine idling with the trans in gear or out of gear with the clutch engaged or disengaged as you may hear something you could'nt hear over the engine as you are taking off driving. Billy
is it late motor or early motor, You can't put a late flywheel on a early motor, or visa versa the starter drive will intermittantly hit the flywheel, sometimes when you push in the clutch, just my 2 cents worth, pull the starter and drive it like the previous post said. ,
Possibilities; Pilot Bearing, broken pressure plate finger, bad t.o.b. (recently bought a new one at the local parts house and it was frozen), springs in clutch hub hitting the heads of the flywheel bolts (was the FW resurfaced on new bolts used?), fingers of pressure plate hitting bearing retainer or input shaft (was the late pressure plate from an application with the 1 3/8" spline?) Probably not the starter bendix dragging as you are pushing the FW forward to disengage the cluch and away from the starter pinon gear (unless youv'e got the ministarter). Take a look through the inspection cover to check the fingers and might be able to get your fingers on the bearing to see if its stuck. In any case it's got to come out or you'll need a louder stereo and a AAA card.
was the adjustment of the PP fingers the same?? as if they are off, can cause this , also watch out for TOB retainer and adjustment on throw of retainer, as internally its not the same diameter, it gets bigger in the centre and can get stuck on the end of the Gbox input shaft if too much throw. Also if too much throw, will get s****ing noise, cant remember exactly why now???
FWIW, I had similiar noises recently, replaced the bendix spring and gear ***embly yesterday now the noise seems to have gone.... Adam F
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