Can you weld steering knuckles (borgenson,flaming river)??? It's for a 50 chevy.

We're working on Vern's 50 chevy with a Ch***is Engineering mustang II on it. It has this weird set up for steering and not much room around it. The U-joints have set screws, but a few of the tightening nuts are hitting the frame .

I would like to weld the joints to the double d shafts, but the box says not to weld them. Why??? I know I've seen them welded on cars before. I'm not going to weld the entire set up to the column, just the center part in question. If I CAN, then we won't have any issue of rubbing or hitting.

Have any of you kats welded yours? Good or Bad?

I wonder if that's just to relieve them of some liability, or if it weakens the knuckle.

Or, do you have any pics of your steering set up on your early fifties chevy with a mustang II???

Any input, as always, is appreciated,
Reverend Jake

 

3/4" smooth bore steering U-joints are welded in on a regular basis in circle track applications. Anything beyond that would require a disclaimer on my part and I don't like typing.

 

can you heat the spots on the frame where the screws are hitting and dimple it enough to clear the screws?

Paul

 

Yes, I was thinking along those same lines. I would be alittle worried about welding the U-joints. Cracking comes to mind. You could also trim alittle of the frame if possible and if necessary weld in a frame plate support to compensate.

 

I don't think so. The knuckle is right next to the motor mount which it right against the crossmember. I think it is too much of a work hardened area (lots of angles at that particular point). If I do something like that, I'd just notch the frame and take out that whole part of the equation. I don't want to do that if I can keep from it.

Reverend Jake

 

Can you drill through and use a roll pin?

 

Yes you can weld them if you have to.Just make sure you dont run your ground THROUGH them, thereby destroying tolerances in the bearings. Weld small tacks, air cool, them weld some more. Don't plan on replacing them, without making a new shaft. Weld them if there is NO other choice. Sparky

 

I have heard that the reason they tell you not to weld the joints is because the seals will turn loose from the heat and make the semi-permanent lubrication to fail over time.

That said, I know of a dude that has a lot of miles on an Anglia with a narrowed MII rack, and one of his joints was TIG welded to the shaft. MIG welding it would spook me, though. And you'd only need a coupla real good "TIG tacks" to duplicate the holding power of the set screws. If you are using a splined or Double-D shaft, the inherent design of either will take all the torsional (twisting) force.

However, before I did all that, I'd look for a Sweet (brand) joint. These are smaller outer diameter than the Borgesons or Flaming Rivers, so they might give you the space you need. You can usually get them from race car supply houses.

 

I ran into a similar problem on my dad's 51.
We're using an RB's kit.
The set srew was hitting the upper A arm support.
We're using 3/4" double d for the steering.
I drilled a small hole in the double d where the set screw was going.
Now the set screw goes through the Borgenson and right into the dd.
All that is left is enough threads to get the jamb nut on.

 

Thanks for the info guys. I'm going to post pics of this clustered botch job this evening.

Rocket, the weird thing on his rack, is it runs parallel above the crossmember. Where yours comes up at an angle. I thought his looked funky but it bolts on that way. I had him call Ch***is Engineering since it's there ****, and they told him to call borgenson. You gotta love service after the sell.

More later,
Reverend Jake

 

My set up is on a 53 Pontiac and looks like Rocket88's set up there, except my Borgeson joints are Double D, and welded and drilled and pinned as well. I have had no troubles with my set up and it is used daily from april to november, and has been on the road 10 years now. About your angle on your Rack, mine comes off much more horizontal at the rack then on Rockets but mine is also a manual rack too so that probably plays some into it. I ended up havving to put a slight c-notch in the upper corner of my frame to clear the shaft a bit as I kept my stock column and 3 spd std linkage.

 

Wouldn't welding affect the lubricant in for the needle bearings?
How are you gonna take it apatrt for service?

 

Back 10 years ago we had asked the dealer (not the manufacturer, but I have had no trouble) we bought them from about welding and he said there was no worry welding it and that as long as your ground was on your part and not letting current go thru the bearings it would be fine and i tend to believe that. As for servicing, are you meaning how do you take the steering shaft out without removing the rack or column, if so, when a steering shaft is made up that should be taken into account, and if you loosen the set screws, on both ends it will slide further onto the rack, allowing you to remove the column end, then just slide back up and off the rack end.

 

Its not all pieces welded together, its just a Ujoint on one end welded to a shaft in the middle and that welded to another Ujoint on the other end. therefore the shaft is removeable with the ujoints attached to it.

 

Iam having trouble posting the pic I will keep trying............

 

Over here you can in a racing situation but not for the street a better idea would be to drill the shaft slightly to cause a small dimple then make a ****on head screw exactly the right size a star washer a bit of locktight and this should give you several mm of clearance plus looks a lot better than those manky nuts etc the unis come with

 

Remember Rizzo in the median on American creditcard Rodder? I dont trust lock nuts, roll pins maybe, lock nuts no.

 

Here's the pics for my steering.....maybe??

 

pic 2

 

pic 3

 

Have you ever seen the way some people do what they call "weld" ?

Keep the welds short, sweet and to the point. Be sure your not trying to ground through the u joint. If you are concerned about heat damage to the joint, put some heat absorber between the weld and the joint bearings. Weld it and be done. Gene

 

Most states not legal to weld steering componets, depends on whether has to p*** state inspection or not. Looked like I was going to have to weld something up on my 27 roadster but I scored a '90 Ford Aerostar van steering linkage yesterday, looked like I might could use an end. Ended up cutting off the end that has 3/4" square shaft, fit in double D joint on Vega box, drilled small hole in shaft so set screws went in to where lock nut & end of screw flush for clearance. Length of remaining shafts & joint perfect fit. Other end adapted to my homemade steering shaft. I drilled & put in roll pin as well as grinding flats on the shaft as the shaft was smooth & the joint splined. Also came with a vibration dampner built in the joint. Cost $15. Buying Borgenson joint for double D and vibration dampner would have set me back around $160. Plus the Aerostar shaft is 2 piece that slide, smaller into larger, so I can adjust the steering column up or down depending on how close or far away I want the steering wheel.

 

I am sorry but you my friend have some serious issues with that steering. I wont candy coat it, your safety is more important. You see, UJOINTs only work at shallow anglews, under 30degrees deflection. A couple of your joints look closer to 45+. At the very least, you will have "notchy" steering and destroy ujoints in due time.

 

Eddie, those slip shafts are nice, GM also has them. We use them on many installations.

 

Any info on fixing the mess I have, would help need to have the car up and runing by april, taking it to Stray Katt

 

I've welded them before. They do sell the smooth bore joints that are meant to be welded. Although you don't want to ground through the joint, and I wrap the joint with a wet rag, do short welds and allow time to air cool between welds. I'd trust a weld before I'd trust a little set screw that can back out.

 

Vern, looking at your pic, I would say that the column needs to come down (on the firewall/toeboard are) to make it the easiest/right fix. The prob is those angles on the top 2 ujoints. The angles need to be shallower. Mock up your pedals/enigine/****** so you know your clearances and then try again. You will get it.

 

Thanks for all the info I will give it a shot...

 

I've got the same front end in my car, and I know the problrm you are having. In the instructions I got with the CE front end, they tell you to drill in to the shaft a little (once you're SURE you got the pieces where you want them) and use a different set screw without the lock nut. I can't remember off the top of my head what kind of set screw to use... I'll have to dig out the instructions. You read the instructions, right? I agree with what the other guy said about the angles on the joints though, they look a little steep. Flaming river makes a double U joint that will make a 70 degree turn. I used one on the bottom by the rack to make the turn. As far as welding goes, it's the heat that you have to worry about because it heats up the bearings and the bearing lube. They tell you not to weld them as a CYA (cover yo ***) so you can't **** it up and then turn around and sue, but if you follow the advice in the prior posts, you should be fine. This picture really doesn't show jack, does it...

 

the steering knuckles you get from speedway are narrower than the flaming river borgeson u joints so they may help your clearance problem. They also look more weldable - meaning they look less machined and not cast. I am not positive if the flaming river stuff is cast or not - I just think the speedway ones look more weldable.