I have a 59 Edsel with a 292 and a 3 Speed. The clutch was getting old so I pulled the tranny and put in a new clutch and plate. I have another three speed with the overdrive. I thought I would put this one in and run it to make sure I knew it was good. Well today I finished the install. Well the trans just grinds going into first as well as second while just idleing. Also once I get into second it wants to slip right out. I know first is not synchronized but second should not grind and and even at that first should "grind softly" when initially go to put into gear Then just go in. Can I assume at least the main issue is the synchros for second are just bad?
Something wrong with the clutch, it's not releasing fully. How much free play is there in the pedal, that is how far do you push the pedal before you feel spring resistance from the clutch? If there's too much free play, that could be the problem. Or it could be may other things, from a bad pressure plate to sticky splines or pilot bushing, problems with the linkage, or even the disk in backwards.
All new components, the disc cant coin in backwards as the center metal part of the disc would face the flywheel first rather than the friction material. Once I get it in gear I can let the clutch pedal out a good 2 inches then I hear the new disc start to "drag" from the friction and it engages and disengages clearly. Only about a half inch of freeplay. I understand everything you mentioned except for the sticky splines and pilot bushing statement. How can that cause what I am experiencing? By the way not at all being a smart ass, just don't get it. Joe
Anything that could cause the clutch to be partly engaged will make the input shaft spin when you have the trans in neutral, and the clutch pedal pushed in. The symptoms of grinding into gear under those conditions are just what you'd expect. The pilot bushing being sticky could be turning the input shaft when the clutch is released. The splines on the input shaft being sticky could keep the disc pushed against the flywheel when the clutch is released. Just grasping at straws here: does it have 90wt gear oil in the trans? or something else?
If the splines were sticky or slightly rusty on the used trans, the disc can be held slightly against the flywheel or P-plate...which would allow the disc to spin a bit. That disc eventually will stop as you try to grind it into gear. The bushing: if there was some rust or dirt on the used trans pilot, then the trans input shaft would still try to turn, just like a sticking spline...quite rare though. On a new disc install with a used flywheel: Sometimes there are slight raised defects or burrs on the new clutch disc surface. These will wear away quite quickly with a new machined flywheel. On a used, "slick" flywheel, it may take a little driving to wear those high spots off. Those spots just keep the disc spinning a bit, just like sticking splines. Another thing is that if there is no/ or low trans oil in the trans, that will also make it easier for the disc to keep spinning.
Understood, The flywheel was resurfaced. I put new 80/90wt gear oil in it. So lets assume that maybe the splines are not allowing the disc to slide back and release from the flywheel fully but after a little driving that improves. What is with the shifter not taking it fully into 2nd gear? It doesn't seem to have any adjustments on the shift linkage. Is the only adjustment made by loosening up the shifting arms and rotate them 10 or so degrees and retighten them? To me it doesn't feel like 2nd is really fully engaged at all to begin with.
The shift rod adjustment is up on the levers on the collum. Disconect the rod off 2-3 lever and move it by hand ,see if the movement is about equal both ways. Also the trans may have some internal issues being you have not used it before. To check rod adjustment disconect one rod at collum end ,make sure both trans levers are in neutral. Both collum levers should be parellel with each other . Adjust the rod if needed so the loose one just slips into the hole on the lever.
I had a problem like the one you are having, mine was a 4 speed. It would not go into first without grinding and use of force sceond gear was somewhat smoother but still not right. It wound ip being the pilot bushing/bearing. Hope this helps.
Could it be the bushing knowing that the 3 speed I took out works absoulutely flawlessly? Would I just file a little off the end of and around the perimeter of the input shaft of the transmission?
Don't do that.. Let's start over. If it is just a minor drag on the new disc, here is how to tell: A minor drag will grind the first and reverse a lot until it slows the disc down. If it seems to go into 3rd MUCH better with little grinding, I would try adjusting the clutch rod for just a very slight free play, just to test. If going to almost no free play cures it, I would think that the disc just needs to be worn in a bit by driving. If it wears in, you can adjust the free play back to specs later. As far as jumping gear, do like was said about making sure that the linkage is adjusted correctly, and make sure that there is not a problem with slop in each piece of moving linkage. A bit of slop in every joint could make it so that the trans 2/3 lever is not moving fully into gear. That gear has to go all the way in, to be able to stay in gear as you try to drive. Go under the car not running while someone works the 2/3 shift. When they get it into either 2 or 3, now grab the trans lever to see if you can move it "further" into that gear. If you can move it further, either the linkage is out of adjustment, or there is too much play at each joint. I never worked on those Ford setups that I can recall. Is there a belly cover under the clutch bell housing? If there is, have someone hold the clutch pedal down to max. Then take a sharp object to try to spin the clutch disc. You should be able to see the pressure plate pull away from the flywheel as the pedal is pushed down.
I would first make sure you have the linkage adjusted properly . Just put into neutral and make sure everything is adjusted right . Personally I would just pull the trans and clean the input shaft with a wire brush and make sure the clutch disc slide on the shaft easily . You can also put a very small amount of lube on the shaft to make the disc slide easily . I would also take the trans cover off and take a look inside while the trans is out & order a new gasket kit for it so you know you will have no leaks down the road . The parts aren't hard to get and you can rebuild it yourself . I am not sure but can't you use the gears from the other good trans for the overdrive trans ? You can always use the 3 speed until the overdrive trans is fixed . Just a thought . Retro Jim
Being a brand new disc I can hear the disc go from having absolutely no drag to starting to have drag. I know the plated is fully disengaged and that the disc isn't dragging against the flywheel. As far as the rod pushing on the arm of the throw out bearing. After the new install but before I tried running it I could tell the clutch pedal was not up all the way so when pressed it wouldn't get full throw and release all the way. So I removed the rod and modified it with some nuts and all thread as to lengthen and give it some adjustability. I am going to try the linkage adjustment first. As I know comparing from the old trans that currently the throw on the linkage from Reverse-1 action to 2-3 action isn't straight it has a good dogleg to it. Is the adjustment on the linkage at the end of the column right after it goes thru the column?
Okay, good news today. For some reason I didn't have any grindage today. Not sure why. I looked into the 2nd gear hang up. The shift arm on the trans was interfering with the other, I compared to the original trans and swapped the arms, problem solved. I do get a little grind shifting into 3rd at speed though. But linkage wise the shifting is perfect. So, here is one for you. My trans is a 3speed with the overdrive. I have not hooked any of it up so I figured it would react like my old trans. However it does freewheel when I let off the gas pedal. I kind of thought it wouldn't to that. If I don't want it to do that should I at least hook up the cable and "pull" the cable as to physically disconnect the overdrive. It is definately not going into overdrive it just freewheels and while stopped and not running but in gear it will roll forward. I know I can set the e brake but that is not habit. Can someone confirm that this is normal even with everything disconnected. Joe
If the cable is in overdrive position, it will freewheel, but won't actually engage overdrive unless the solenoid is activated (you need to wire it up). Also there's something about reverse is supposed to be locked out when it's in the overdrive position, or it's supposed to kick it out of overdrive when you shift into reverse. If the lockout is working.
Well reverse totally funtions well. I manually pulled the arm on the overdrive and when I set it, locked up so it wouldn't roll forward when turned off. Thanks for all the help guys
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