This might be a dumb question and I'm sure that I'm going to get more than one response saying "just spray it", but has anyone ever brushed on or even rolled on 2k epoxy primer? My reason for not wanting to spray it is to try to avoid exposure to the isocyanates associated with it....OR is it just as dangerous to breathe the fumes if I were to roll it on?
Yes, but only to coat the inside of a flange prior to welding things together two days later. Was easier than moving a car without wheels into the paint booth. That said, there should not be any isocyanates in epoxy primer (double check MSDS sheet), those are typically going to be found in hardeners, and yes, you can get exposed to isocyanates from just mixing if you don't have the proper protective gear. But get a paint respirator and spray it your epoxy.....
I rolled it on the bottom side of a Vega drag car because I didn't want the overspray in that part of the shop ,I thought it worked OK but it took a lot more sanding because the finish wasn't real smooth. I would probably do it again under the same circumstances . best of luck
I am not sure what kind of epoxy primer you are using, but PPG, Matrix and SPI epoxy primers are all two part i.e. paint + activator, and the activators all have ISOCYANATES. - If I remember any 2K paint, means that it is a two part system and that one of them is an activator/hardener. Your advice to the OP is 100% correct - get a quality respirator and use it when ever you are working with any isocyanates, lung problems are not something you want to deal with.
Ya know, I'm considering using a brush to do the inside of some doors and areas that sprayed paint just doesn't want to go! I might even use a roller in ther if it will fit! My main application will still be by spray-gun but that will be after I do the areas that will not want to coat. I'll be doing this on a highly modified body, ('61 Cutlass build thread) because it has a lot of surface rust that has been sandblasted clean and I don't want the rust to have a chance to come back. As to brand of paint to use, I'm still debating that too. My budget won't support expensive paint anymore .. Dan Stevens dba, Steelsmith
If you are on a budget take a look at SPI's epoxy - excellent quality and a low price. http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/Product%20lines.htm
2K is not the same as epoxy. 2K is a paint product and a separate hardener, usually clear, that yes, has isocyanates. Epoxy should be a two component paint, and in the case of H/K, each having their own color, so when part A and part B are mixed properly a third color is produced and the curing process starts with this mixing. All epoxies I have seen, primer or otherwise, will be identified with a Part A and Part B designator on the label. Yes, epoxy will still have some methyl ethyl bad stuff in it and will require proper protection (respiratory required, encapsulating recommended) but I still don't believe you'll find Aliphatic Polyisocyanate Resins in a true epoxy paint. But check the MSDS of the product you chose to be sure....
Try foam rollers and foam brushs from Ace hardware. Should lay it on smoothly and have better control of the millage
A lot of boats get painted with an epoxy type paint by what is referred to a roll and tip method. The paint is put on with a roller followed by a helper using a brush to flow it out. Here is a marine suppliers video on the subject. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f49HU37Oz04 If done right the brush strokes don't show.
I'm not sure which brand exactly I will be using. At this point just wanted to know if rolling would even be an option for me. The only kind of respirator I would consider using with this stuff would be a fresh air system. Filters such as charcoal have a very limited lifespan. I've heard that you pretty much have to toss them after each use. I agree though...your health isn't something to mess around with.
I'm not really concerned about the brush marks since it's all going to be sanded out eventually anyway. I'm stripping one panel at a time so brushing it on as I go would be a lot easier than having to clean a gun each time.
Brushing, Rolling, Squeegeing, Spraying are all "application methods". It doesn't matter which "method" you use. Film build is what you are looking for. You may have to mix the Epoxy w/o any solvent to be able to get it to lay down to your likeing. If it is in blind spots, brushing works fine. Just don't apply too much. Foam brushes work good also. Hell, I've even Squeegied on High Build Primer Surfacer. Just don't put to much on and let it dry / flash for a good amount of time.
You absolutely have to wear the proper mask as indicated by the paint manufacturer. Isocyanates are evil shit. It seems your original question is leading towards being able to avoid wearing protective devices, consult the manufacture for this, I wear the full monkey suit when I shoot it and a full proper mask, I like being able to feed myself. The problem with this paint is that it is going to mess up your brain, your central nervous system, it's vapors can be absorbed into your skin due to evaporation contact, you don't have to let this crap make you dizzy for it to kill you. Be safe and get info.
I think it will be too thin to roll, it will be much thinner than a latex paint, will end up running all over and by the time you get it smoothed out it will be a film. Not sure what your goal is, what kind of paint are you going to use on the car? If its anything more than tractor enamel you will need a respirator anyway. Their $10 on ebay, under $25 by the time you get filters. Raed thru 3M's site and find one appropriate for paint, I really like the full face for spraying, your eyes will absorb things too. http://cgi.ebay.com/3M-Half-Facepie...479?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e40b9387
It says that this should still be applied over an epoxy primer so I'm not sure this will do the trick.
I'm not sure what I'll end up painting the car with....that's down the road. All I want right now is to protect the surface after the bare metal is treated and conditioned. I agree, some sort of protection is needed when doing any kind of spraying. Filters WILL do the trick, but from what I've read, that they're pretty much garbage after one use since you can't tell when the charcoal stops working and you can't smell ISO's. That will get expensive.
Fixxxr, what you have with cartrige respirators is a set limit of time that the filters work. They are intended to be used while actually in the spray-booth, (while paint is being sprayed). That is usually just a couple of hours at a time, in a production invironment. You simple write on the sealed bag the respirator comes in, how many hours of exposure the mask has endured. Keep adding up the hours until the max time has been reached. I believe most respirators are under 40 hours of exposure before they are done. Never ceases to amaze me when I see 'painters' wearing their respirator around their neck, like a neck-tie, while they sand or mask a car they aren't quite ready to paint! Only expose your respirator when it's needed and throw it away when it has expired! It's that simple. Dan Stevens dba, Steelsmith
Epoxy primers typically sand like crap. As far as adhesion and performance goes, it will probably still be fine if brushed or foam rolled. I would be concerned with achieving proper film build. But still, it will be a pain to sand flat. Most of the production painters at the body shops we service will order a new respirator every monday morning with their paint material/supply order. Use 3M.7191, 3M.7192, or 3M.7193 (small, medium, or large) like steelsmith said, 40 hours of booth time is usually what they are rated at. Fresh Air systems are best, but i find, there's really nothing wrong with a charcoal activated respirator. Especially for small stuff like doing a panel at a time. Guys are in and out of the booth all day every day using these respirators. They will perform for ya.
I have used those small foam rollers to apply PPGs D P epoxy primer. Mixed the DP and 402 but no reducer. Actually rolled on better than expected. I wasn't looking for a real smooth finish, just trying to keep bare metal from rusting while working on other parts of the vehicle. When all was done, scuffed with 150 applied surfacer and went from there. I agree with everyone on the usage of a good organic filter. I used to work for G M in the engineering dept. and we sterted using isocyanite laden paints around 1982. Not much was done about the right equipment so we sprayed that crap for about 4 years when we were told that the masks we were using weren't the right ones. Hopefully I won't have any lingering effects. Always better safe than sorry.
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