I will be installing the harmonic balancer on my 283 Chevy today. Quick question: This engine is bolted to a four legged a stand, and has been completely redone. When tapping the balancer on, should I brace the back of the crank so I don't damage any seals etc. ?? Easy to do on the stand, and I know better than to hammer to much. This engine does NOT have the bolt hole, so need to tap on all the way. Thanks for any help. Cheers, Bob
Well...my personal recommendation, based on experience, would have been to drill & tap the crank snout for a bolt. However. It's not the seals you need to worry about so much as the thrust bearing and the outer ring of the damper. You know not to beat the **** out of it, so, I would probably "move" the crank forward...brace the back of the crank with a block of wood...use another block as a hammering point on the damper hub, and tap away. You probably also know not to hit the outer ring at all. Aaand..you probably also know this, but for the listening audience: don't heat up the hub with a torch, or whatever. To heat it up enough to do any good, you will get it hot enough to wreck the seal, and possibly the elastomer between the hub and outer ring as well.
I would just hold a wood 2x4 against the front of the damper, and wail on it with a 3 lb hammer. The stress on the thrust part of the crank/rear main bearing is pretty low, since the surface area is so large.
Thousands if not millions of them have been done just as Squirrl suggested. You might wedge a block of wood between the back end of the crank and the stand to keep the crank from moving when you drive the dampener on. That should take the stress off the thrust bearing.
Heating the damper in boiling water for 15 minutes can make it easier to install.The crank weighs about 50-60 pounds?You're hitting on a 6 pound damper with a 3 pound hammer.how much force is transmitted to the crank trust bearing? A block of aluminum works real nice to hold against the damper when hammering.Even oak tends to absorb the blows too much.Some guys lay a large hammer on the damper and then hit that with another hammer.......whatever,gloves and safety gl***es.........
I would be more concerned about the stand moveing and not getting the full impact of the hammer.. Duane.
Best time to drill and tap the crank is when it is at the machine shop. People that are paranoid about hammering on the pulley and hurting the thrust main usually set the engine on the floor resting on the flywheel and beat the pully on letting the floor absorb the energy. When I do one I polish the crank snout smooth with fine Emory paper and make sure the bore of the pulley is smooth, add a little light oil and beat it on.
As I have related here before, I tend to be paranoid about dampers- a good friend was very badly burned when a damper ring cracked into pieces, cutting fuel pump lines which then sprayed flaming alcohol down the back of his head and fire suit. A perfect storm of cir***stances, perhaps, but it does illustrate the hazards of damper failure. (No, it wasn't beaten into place with a hammer.) Truckedup and others- I'm not implying that the thrust bearing * will * be damaged so much as I am saying that it is more susceptible to damage from this method of installation than are the seals. The damper ring is actually first in line for damage. Nevertheless, bearing shells are as a rule more designed to withstand gradual (so to speak) loading than they are sudden impact loads, which is why engines that have suffered from severe detonation, or manual transmission-equipped engines that have undergone racing use, often have microscopic fractures in the shell or thrust ring. I have a SBC thrust bearing in the shop (or had, anyway) that has the thrust ring almost completely cracked off from the loading/unloading from the pressure plate (circle track). Have thousands of engines had their balancer beaten into place with a hammer? Sure. Have many of these installs been successful? Probably almost all...for at least a while. Some longer than others, no doubt. However, the guy asked about installing it this way, and I gave him my opinion as to the best way to do it....others' mileage may vary.
As always, thanks for all the quick replies. And just to clarify... I have been accused of a lot of things.... But NEVER of being smart ..... The balancer came off a 327 chevy which did not have a bolt, and I am reusing it on my 283, which was redone and all together when I got it. I am somwhat handicapped with my knees and back, so don't bend way down unless I have too (as in drop some food) Soooo, when I actually layed down on the concrete to look at it before starting to install it.... WALA....what do I see....yep you guessed it.....THREADS... Went to a local speed shop and got the correct bolt and washer, and in five minutes is was on..... Damn, I love to laugh, but most of the time at myself is getting old... Cheers, Bob
Myth pretty much busted on, what else?, MythBusters. REVISITED: If two hammers strike each other, at least one hammer will completely shatter with lethal force. (From episode 67) re-busted First, the Build Team properly heated two modern hammers to the transition point and quenched them, making them as brittle as possible. The two hammers simply snapped at the necks when struck. Then they tested older steel hammers (predating World War II). Though the heads began to chip when struck, one of them ultimately snapped at the neck as well.
ok i have banged a few on and others say to do it. but i have grownup and know what can happen when you beat on a balancer.. the only way to do it is to drill and tap the end of the crank.i even do inline 6 motors. it is not hard nor is it rocket science. and then after you get the balancer on use a bolt to keep it on. yes i have seen more then one walk off.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex_yJ_V5UH8 This dude says DONT use the hammer....and DONT use the bolt and washer method. I need to go rent an install tool...haha!
Lead hammer only for me on those SBC's with no crank hole. No wood. The wood usually turns to splinters
Hitting any balancer with a hammer is never a good idea, the only way to put one on is to use the correct tool, hitting it with a hammer will only damage it, a very hack way of installing it, remember it helps make the engine run smooth! Be like takin a grinder to your cam! U really need to have a drilled and taped hole in the front of the crank and a bolt to tighten onto the damper.
I partially agree. But, what if the crank's not drilled and you're working with the motor in the car. Let's say you're replacing the timing cover seal only? Do you remove the motor, dis***emble, drill the crank, and reinstall the motor? All for a timing cover seal?
I was standing not two feet from a guy at work who was holding one hammer against a pin being put into a clevis while another guy hit that hammer with another hammer. The guy holding the hammer got a nice chunk stuck into the meat at the base of his thumb that broke off the hammer he was holding. Had to have surgery to get it out. it CAN happen. I have seen other hammers lose pieces when struck, they just didn't injure anyone. I sure as hell wouldn't do it. I did see that episode of Mythbusters...still won't do it.
Personnally i would never run an engine without a drilled crank, not having something that could stop a balancer or pulley coming doesnt apeal to me. If u can hit a balancer back onto the engine while still in the car then there must be enough room to swing a hammer? Would be alot of work i agree, i just prefer to be on the safe side thats all.
This thread has raised my curiosity as to how the ***embled the balancer on the crank at the factory.
My guess is that they have a big hydraulic/pneumatic fixture that holds/supports the back of the crank while pressing on the balancer (picture a big valve spring tool for ***embling heads). Another method I use on those is I vibrate them on
Drill and tap the crank. (1/2" SAE) Now rent or buy a balancer installer. Tool has special adaptor studs for different applications, select the one for your tapped hole. Now thread the installation sleeve onto the adaptor stud. (the stud will not strip out of the soft crank threads like a bolt will! The stud will be stationary until the task is completed) More than one crank has had the threads pulled right out of it using a turning bolt, Anti-Sieze compound or thread-Eze! The installation tool has a side-load ball bearing in its arbor that contacts the damper hub, The nut and threaded body are of the 1" family, with a finer thread than SAE. I have used this (Snap On) tool for 100+ instances, MOST after drilling and RE-tapping cranks stripped out by "Bolt Bandits". Lastly, install the 1/2" bolt you bought with the special thick washer, checking first the washer will fit in the large center hole of the pulley. Please heed this, truly the right way. (if you haven't ***embled the engine yet, bore the crank snout first! Unless it's already been dione)
If you are so inclined, you can fab a fixture to press on the damper without much time and work and expense. Before the firestorm hits, I am NOT saying NOT to hammer it on. The ultimate way WOULD be as already stated to drill and tap the snout. For the ****, annoying, and engineering types like myself, you can easily build a " cage " that either attatches to the back of your 4 post stand, or better yet the back of the block. Then a longitudinal arm running along each side of the block in line with the crank cenerline. Now you need a bridge across tieing the square together. A quick an easy tab and bolt to the front of the block or to a motor mount hole ties it all together. In the center you can fab something like a brake caliper piston compressor tool, and use this to " draw " on the damper. A 3/4" fine thread nut, welded to a plate capturing the nut will work fine. Is this rediculous, for most yes, I have built one years ago, and used it quite often, very sucesfully mind you. There are times and clients that NOT seeing the marks left from the BFH method are appreciated. Just food for thought, nothing more.
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