New guy ....first post / first hot rod and I'm already getting my **** kicked. I did search for the answer in the archive but could not find any specific info on my question. Trying to get the 31 coupe rolling, and ready to install the Pete and Jakes 32-34 transverse rear buggy spring. (PN 3058)The guys and P & J's said the spring hangers need to be spaced 44 inches on center. I made sure the hanger tubes where parallel with the spring bracket on the crosstube per the instructions and tacked them in at 44 inches, but when spreading the spring to attach the spring shackles, there was so much tension it was bending the hangers inboard and the shackles were being spread before I could get the end plates installed. I managed to get the shackles installed but both hangers were bent inward from the tension. I want to move the hanger spacing "in" about an inch or inch and a half ( 42.5 or 43 inches)to relieve some of the side tension on the hangers, but am concerned that the spring may not be at its proper working width. Would that affect ride heidth or ride quality? There is a tremendous amount of side pressure on the hangers to get the shackles installed. I finally managed to apply tension to the spring using a racheting tow strap, but I would hate to ever try and change the shackle busings after the car is built and with the tension, I would think the bushings would wear out quickly. I don't know how I would ever get the spring to spread if the body was installed. What am I missing here? I certainly am not questioning the guys at P&J's, as those guys have been so great and very helpful, but there just seems to be so much tension that the side load on the hangers is bending them. I am sure the spacing was 44 inches, BUT, I did not tack weld the gussets because I wanted to be sure my pinion angle was correct before I welded everything in place. Should I stay with the 44 inch spacing, but tack the gussets before installing the spring, or can I move the spacing in to 42.5 or 43 to relieve some of the tension? Also, is there an easier way to "flatten" / "tension" the spring? The guys at P&J's said they used a couple of 10-12 inch C-clamps, which I don't have, but i did manage to spread the spring with the strap. I am open to any ideas on spreading the spring to install the shackles. The rear end setup is a Ford 9 inch, with P&J ladder bars, as well as P&J transverse buggy spring and 35-40 rear spring mounting kit. Thanks in advance.... Outlaw
you should try bumping this to the top for the Monday morning crowd....when they are at work, but bored
thanks F&J, can you educate me as to how to bump it to the top. I have seen it done but don't know how......everythings new to me on the HAMB Thanks for the advice. Outlaw
Bottom line is that the spring hanger centerline needs to be approx. 4-5 inches wider than the UN-SPREAD (relaxed...sitting on the floor etc.) center line of the spring eyes. If the spring measures 42" eye-center to eye-center, then the hangers should be about 46/47" center to center and so on. If the hangers are at 44", then the spring needs to measure about 39/40" center to center. There is NO absolute should-be.... other than when it's all put together the shackles ride at about a 45 degree angle and the ch***is goes bouncy-bouncy.
You definately need 44 ,Your spring is 38 eye to eye ,You can put your purches any where you want ,But then you will need a custom leaf spring .And by the way never mount radius rods with the spring installed
if Pete & Jakes says 44" that where i'd have them if i follow you correctly , you have not put on those gusset plates and have just tacked everything....correct? if so , that is your problem i'd also only use the main leaf for mock up
I reread your post and your problem is more tack weld and what welder are you using ,I hope its an arc ,Thats just my preference for frame work
There is a lot of tension on the rear spring. They make a spreader for regular eye springs. if reverse eye you could take a couple of clamps and remove all the leaves. spread the main leaf then use C clamps to put the rest on ( need 2 clamps) then put the center bolt back in . Hook a shackle on one side and put a board under the other so when you spread the main leaf it spread about the same height as the hanger so it is eaiser to put in the other shackle. on a standard A rear spring it spread outward a good 6-8 inches. I also agree with 36-3window to use only the main leaf for mockup and put the centers where P&J says to put them
thanks guys, I appreciate the quick responses. I will break down the spring to the main leaf and get the proper spread to get the 44 inches as P&J said, then install the remaining springs. gearhead bill. thanks for the numbers, that especially helps a lot as this is my first transverse spring mount and I did not know how much they spread. Car crazyjohn...I'm afraid I don;t know what radius rods are that you said not to install with spring installed. I have 2 spring hangers to install and I have already mounted the ladder bar brackets but don't have any radius rods that I know of. Please explain. AND, I am using a MIG welder as I don;t have an arc welder. I am also ***uming that spreading the spring is done ON THE CAR and not on the floor...correct? I need the spring hangers to be parrallel with the spring perch that is welded to the crossmember, and if not on the car, I have no way to know the hanger tube is parrallel with the perch. Am I correct on that ***umption? Oldskool30, I am having a hard time visualizing your explanation of the use of a board under the shackle on one side. I managed to spread the spring by running a racheting tie-down strap between the shackles and the spring on both sides then up and over my rear frame above the crossmember. By tightening the rachet I was able to force the spring eyes outward thereby spreading the spring and hook up the remaining shackle, BUT the pressure on the hanger was extreme and the hanger was bending inward with the spring pressure. But, I did not tack in the gusset either. Is using the strap not a good idea? I will tack in the gusset before trying this again....Thanks again guys, this is just all new to me and I want to do it right and not get smacked in the process. I am ready to get this coupe on the ground so I can start mounting the body. Outlaw
I used something like that..sort of. I was just doing it to visualize the ride height, etc. I had some long 1/2" threaded rods, and then welded on a 1/8" thick by 1-1/2" wide band steel in a j shape to hook on each leaf end. I used a long wooden 2x4 to go over the frame with a drilled hole in each end. Tightened the j hooks evenly to squat the spring so I could hook up the shackles. Might be a waste of time, but I just wanted to see how the whole suspension looked at proper height. I did have to cut the j bands to get them off later, because the shackles were in the way when it was all ***embled.
F&J....I thought of a similar idea, but could not figure out how to "pull up" on the j hooks, your idea answers that question. thats what I will do, as it seems safer than my strap method and the strap is really difficult to release when tensioned the amount needed. Thanks for the response and the idea. Brad
I usually mount my springs off the car. So I am spreading the spring with downward pressure . If you put a board under the shackles it helps by not having to spread it so far. rear spring in spreader Yes I like stock ride in the rear rear spring pic of front spring with blocks
thanks oldskool, now I see what you were tlking about, but, I have already followed F&J's advice and used the J hook method. it worked great and was even able to salvage the j hooks i built for use later in the teardown for paint. I did get the 44 inch center spacing, with the gussets weled in and it all worked great, with no lost fingers...thanks for the guidance and pictures... outlaw
I'm doing the same thing this week..this post is very helpful..so as I understand this whole procedure you.....set the pinion angle....then tack on spring hangers onto axle housing.......then spread the spring and mount the spring into shackles...then add the remaining springs...then.???......set the crossmember into frame..????...are these the right steps to take???...I've read that the shackles and crossmember spring inner mounting surface should be parallel to the floor or ground..? I'm using a 31 crossmember and a 31 original spring...also P & J ladder bars..
And, as I have sussed it out so far, could be out to lunch, if you set the rear crossmember pad level in the frame with the frame at more or less the angle relative to the ground that it will be when the car is finished you can then get the caster very close by installing the front crossmember at the desired caster relative to the rear pad? In other words, if you want to end up with say 8 deg. of caster, the front pad should be 8 deg. relative to the rear pad with the ch***is jigged with the amount of rake you expect when the car is finished and the rear spring pad at zero?
Sorry, terrible explanation, let me try again. Lets say you figure the finished car is going to be 2 degrees nose down. So you clamp the rails in a jig 2 degrees nose-down. You install the rear cross-member so the rear spring pad is level with the ground, or zeroed out on your protractor. From here, if my thinking is right, you install the front crossmember with the spring pad at whatever amount of caster you want to end up with. In other words, if you wanted 8 degrees of positive caster, measuring off the front spring pad, you would tilt the crossmember back in the ch***is till your protractor reads 8 degrees. Better?
Falcongeorge...my original question was regarding how to "spread" the rear buggy spring to install it using the P&J spring hangers at the prescribed 44 inch spread on the rear axle. I had marked my spring hanger location on the rear axle, ensured the shackle bushing on the hanger was parallel with the spring pad on the frame. Originally I tacked in the hangers, without the gussets, and when I spread the spring and attached it, it bent the hangers inboard on both sides, and i wondered if the 44 inch measurement was "to much", but, as answered above, the 44 inches is right, I just did not install the gussets, so the hanger was to weak and bent. After being advised that the 44 inch spread measurement was correct, and that I MUST have the gussets tacked in before removing my spring tensioner, I rechecked everything, ordered new spring hangers, as my were bent, except this time I tacked in the spring hanger gussets as well. Instead of using a strap to spread the spring, I fabbed up some J hooks, per the advice of F&J, inserted the J hooks between the spring shackles and clamped the "hook" to the spring. I welded a piece of angle iron to the upper part of the "J" which allowed me to pull up on the J hook, to spread the spring, which was more controlled than the strap I previously used. When the apring was spread wiith the J hooks, I installed the hangers, with gussets, then removed the J hooks, and it worked perfectly, and the spring hangers did not bend inboard, since I had installed the inboard gussets as well. AND, i can use the J hooks again when I tear the car down again for painting. However, you kinda lost me with your question about the front crossmember and building in the caster. My ch***is already had the front and rear crossmembers installed, so I can not comment on installing those crossmembers. Sorry I did not take any pictures of the J hook apparatus I built. I used 1/2 inch threaded rod to pull up on the J hooks through a piece of 6 inch channel layed on top of the rear kickup on the frame rails. This allowed me to equally pull up on each side of the spring. The strap I was using before did not allow a precise pull on each side. I hope this explains it better. Maybe someone else can explain the front crossmember question you have with respect to caster. Outlaw
Yea, sorry, Schlitzman's comment about setting the pinion angle got me going, and I kinda headed off on a tangent. I kind of tend to run with things, one question leads to another, and away I go. Too bad you didnt take pics of the J-hook arrangement, I would like to see it. Think I can visualize it, but pics are great. All my experience with ch***is stuff relates to late model small-tire race cars, the old-school rod stuff is all new to me.
Anyone have a pic on how to make the "J" hook set up to spread a spring..? I ma sorry but I just cant see without a pic of two to help me...
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