235 lifter question

So, I have a few questions on 235 lifters. I have a '59 235 in my '53. It was an original powerglide car. I purposely bought a 53 with a powerglide to get the hydraulic lifter motor. Well, turns out its not the original 235, big deal, it was rebuilt by the original owner two years before I bought it. (After digging into it this deep, I would bet that it WAS rebuilt recently.)

I thought it sounded a bit tappy, so I pulled the valve cover off to check stuff out. I have a bent push rod, but the compression is good all around. Then I noticed the lifter looked like it was a solid lifter. I pulled one out and sure enough it is.

I found the following on a website:

Let's solve the "hydraulic or solid lifter question" now... Solids were the rule on every Chevy '6' through 1949 (either 216 or 235 "Loadmaster"). Between 1950 and '57, solids came with every commercial or "stick" (pass.) transmission, whether 216 or 235 or 261 engine. Hydraulics went only with PowerGlide equipped cars. From '58 to '62, every block was drilled for hydraulic lifters, though some had solids installed. Hydraulic lifters will only function in a block that has the oiling passage drilled through the lifter bores (which hole will be plugged and visible on the rear of the block, just above the cam plug).
'58-'62 engines must use a lifter with chamfered sides to prevent shutting off rocker arm oil! NO oil line from rear cam bearing to block center will be found in the pushrod chamber of these engines and, in addition to the I.D. criteria (above), will have a triangular side mount pattern.

Questions:

1. Why were solids used if it was pre-drilled for hydraulics?

2. Looking at my motor, and according to this article, would you install hydraulics?

3. Is it a bad idea to install new lifters onto a broken-in cam?

4. Will I need differernt pushrods? Theyll be getting replaced anyways because of the bent one, but do I need ones with an oil passage hole down the center of it?

5. Does any 235 hydraulic motor have push rods with holes in the center of them?

6. Are the rocker arms different between solid or hydraulic lifters with oiling passage ways? Did the rocker arms ever change regardless?

7. Do I need a high volume oil pump, or is there such a thing for 235?

Thanks

 

Probably had a solid lifter cam in it, so it needs solid lifters. If it has a hydraulic lifter cam, it needs hydraulic lifters. The are ground differently

 

The Man has spoken......! What he said!

 

ok, is there anyway that I can check if its a solid or hydraulic cam?? Should I just install a new cam to be on the safe side?

Is it alright to install a new cam on 2 year old cam bearings? If not, I think those need to be pressed in at a shop, right?

 

Check the block numbers. If it is a solid lifter motor they are not drilled for the oil like a hyd lifter. To check out if the cam is ok just pull the lifter and lookxown the bores. Get someone to bump the starter while you are looking inthere. Cam bearings should be ok. They don't take abuse like rod or crank bearings that get shock loads on them from reciprocation cams just spin

 

Am I right in that a cam for hydraulics can do solids as well, but not the other way round.Info given to me by PATRICKS Az.
Think I got that right ????????
Rod

 

Here is a link to Patricks Antique trucks and cars. Pat's one the best around for straight six engines. He's a great guy and will steer you in the right direction.
http://www.patricksantiquecars.com/

 

Rocker arms and push rods are the same for either solid or hydr. lifters and push rods don't have a hole in the center.

Standard Melling oil pump works best.

If the cam is original, you can tell a solid from a hydraulic like this:

Later 235/261 cams have small casting lumps on the rear of the cam between the 3rd and 2nd to the rearmost cam lobes.
2 or 4 lumps identify it as a hydraulic cam.
1 or 3 lumps makes it a mechanical lifter cam.

You can run hydraulic lifters on a solid cam, but not the other way around.
Solid cams have a more 'gentle' ramp, to stack the lifters/pushrods/rockers together without slamming them.
Hydraulic cams have a faster ramp, which would pound solid lifters and wear them down pretty quick.

 

Alright, roadrunner, so I think I get what youre saying. I could pull the cam and check it out. But... if it already has solid lifters in it, its pretty fair to assume it has a solid cam. If hydraulic lifters work with either cam, then it should be a slam dunk to just install hydraulic lifters and be done with it.
Hotflint, looking at the pictures I attached, you can see the holes that are drilled into the lifter areas for hydraulic lifters.
Ill contact Patrick as suggested to get his opinion as well. Thanks for all the input so far

 

Hydraulic lifters in 235's can bleed down at normal hiways speeds and be a pain in the ass.I have heard this from more than a few guys.With the engine running at a slow idle with the valve cover off, are all the pushrods spinning rhe same? If so,adjust the solid lifters and be done with it.

 

All you have to pull is the oil pan and just look for the casting lumps on the cam.
But who knows if the cam shows hydraulic when cast originally, but was later reground to solid, or the other way around.

I have hydraulic lifters on my late 235 for 15 years in my daily driver truck and never had any problems, even when going for hours on the freeways around 2500-3000 rpm.
I believe most of the reported hydr. lifter problems pertain to the earlier engines and cams/lifters with different design and oil supply.


Probably save to assume if you have solid lifters and the bottoms aren't trashed and they spin, as mentioned, you are good after an adjustment and straightening the pushrods.

My 235 engine code shows to be a truck engine, but it came with hydraulic lifters and I swapped them with new ones 6 years ago, before I knew how to identify the cams.

If you do swap with new lifters, run them like a break in (varying 1500-2000 rpm at 20 mins) or like I did, take a good freeway trip and change the oil afterwards.

 

thanks for all the advise. I think for now, Ill get gaskets and pushrods and just adjust the rockers. I thought there was a big problem with all the clicking, assuming I had hydraulic. Now that I know I have solid, it makes more sense, and Im fine with it. I may swap it later, knowing now that I can, but it runs fine and its cheaper this way.
Thanks for all the input from everyone

 

Which is best for a dual carb set up on a '58 235? Solid or hydraulic? What grind?

 

I have had bleed out problems with the hydraulics. Several people I know have as well. Some hve had better luck by switching over to a T5 to lower engine rpms and use a thicker oil, But I'll stick with solids. Resurface the tips of the rockers and you will probably get rid of most of the noise.

 

What grade oil do you run with the solids?

 

running solids has nothing to do with oil choice. Environment, type of use, and engine condition dictate that...

 

I am currently dealing with the hydraulic lifters on my 1958, 235. I bought the engine with only a few hundred miles on it after complete rebuild which included a new hydraulic cam and lifters. The new lifters are horrible! The guy I bought the engine from had to purchase 2 sets of lifters to just get enough to work properly, and even then one or two still have issues. If the engine sits for a few days, one or two of the lifters loose pressure and will tap until the engine has reached full operating temperature then they pump up and are fine (including highway speeds).

I purchased some slightly used vintage liters which I am having resurfaced, to use as backups. I took the lifters apart and it seems to be a design flaw in the new lifters. The vintage ones use a spring-loaded check valve to hold oil pressure and the new ones use a spring-loaded flat disk...poor design!

 

A few minor points...I've had lots of 261's, never seen one with solid lifters, standard trans or automatic, truck or car engine.
Hydraulic lifters won't work on a solid cam, the clearance take-up ramps will open the valves prematurely and burn the valves pretty quick.
The other way around will work if you set the valve clearance real close, like .006 hot.

 

I'm rebuilding a 1954 261 (from a truck) at the moment and it has the milk bottle style solid lifters. My understanding was that most of the US 261's had solids— at least the early series anyway. Maybe all of the Canadian 261's had hydraulics?