Not ashamed to say my knowledge and unknown or untapped skills as a body guy are going to be tested this winter.. I have some small areas on my A's Project Body that are in need of some help. I have had Dognut29 over and he helped me a ton on how to bump things out, and I have been slowly building up those skills and have most of the tin knocking done. I have some questions to get my head straight on, maybe some of you guys can help? no particular order..just throwing these out there. 1. Can you, or should you fill any areas over primer? or fill over bare steel ? 2. same question with a skim coat...over primer? or bare steel? My cowel top was bent way before i aquired this body..Im not going to replace it, but shure would like to get it right..what are your suggestions on how to achive this? yes..she's going to help me..i hope Thanks all I'll be back, the girls are sleeping and i got up late..need to get some shtuff done on the project
I would think filling over bare steel would be best but I'm an amateur also. I have read about some primers that can be filled over but I'll leave that to the pros. Good luck from a fellow SE Michigander. PS. I did do some lead work and it came out good but everything has to be right.
You might want to try using a shrinking disc on the high and low spots to level the surface. I typically use a skim coat filler on top of a direct to metal primer. The primer help prevent rust that might form below the filler if applied direct to metal. Sand the primer with 40 to 80 grit prior to using the filler for good adhesion. I fabricated a metal dolly to the cowl curve to straighten the hood lips on model a cowls. Takes time with a small hammer but works great.
In the "olds days" it was the right way, to put filler over bare, sanded steel. Never over paint or primer! Nowadays, with epoxy primers, they have more corrosion resistance to protect the steel, as well as better adhesion to the metal, and filler sticks to it as well or better than to metal. So it's OK to put filler under, or over epoxy. At least IF your epoxy says so! Some might not, so read your instructions. Other primers, not a good idea to put under your filler. Esp. etch primers.
I am not a pro, but I use 3m products and put the filler over primmer and same with the skim coat. I have yet to have any problems. Use good quality products ya get what ya pay for.
Hey, For the first thirtyfive years I was doing body & paint we were told NEVER put filler over anything but well ground (16 or 24 grit) metal. The primers back then didn't have great adheasion or rust protection. Today ,I've had to rethink that position, but I'd suggest you jump up to a full urethane primer. Todays' primers no longer contain the heavy metals (lead, zinc & cadminum) old line products did, and their only element of protection from rust is the epoxy or urethane resin contained therein. Try as best you can to get your filler work as straight as possible before you cover it with any additional primers of hi-build surfacers. If you do this, you'll not need the hi-build primers or glazing/spot putty. Also, be very careful when working on Model A cowl panels, I beleave that's the top of a gas tank you're hammering/welding on! Good luck, '' Life ain't no Disney movie" P.S. try to keep your daughter away from painters at all costs, no good can come of this, just ask my wife!
thanks Pimpin no sweat on the tank, it will never have fuel in it ever again so maybe i can keep the primer i have, or i should strip it and go with products of all one maker? from primer to finish coat? Its an enamel primer i have on it
Hey, That's gonna depend on your plans for a final top coat. Todays' urethane finishes arn't going to work with an old emamel based primer beneith them. If you're going with a synthetic or acrylic enamel top coat, sure, but nota urethane. Guys try and use sealers to cover different types of paint materials, but it's like trying to step over dollars to pick up pennies. I'm a firm beleaver in " why go lookin for trouble, it knows where I live " school of thought. Given this is your first rodeo, I'd stick with the enamel materials, and learn all you can about metal work, prepping for a paint job, and shooting paint material. Later you can spend bigger bucks for paint material and learn advanced methods for their application. Good luck " Meanwhyle, back aboard The Tainted Pork "
House of kolor makes a great epoxy sealer , primer.Seal the metal then da it or rough it up with 80 grit.Then use Evercoat rage or a light weight bondo to do your skim coat.This works great especially in wet or snow prone climates.
best answer i have seen yet i just went through an autobody program at school and what they told us was to have your 24 grit scartches already on the bare metal, spray the epoxy and then apply filler once try....with the house of kolor i think you have 72 hours before you have to rough up the primer but its not a bad idea to go ahead and rough it up for added insurance
so stick with one system and go from start to finish with it.. sounds right. the enamel primer i have on it is nothing special, i shot it on there to keep the rust and surface rust away while the long process of mocking and building went on up here in the Michigan wonderland you can get days that the air is like ****ing water, we also have the salt fumes and all the fun that comes with that over the years getting mixed in with our precipitation and our air..it was a stop gap measure at best and it doesnt have to stay..as a mater of fact i will probably strip it all down and start from square one in a flowing process til the final paint is layed. Im thinking about doing it all myself..i hope im not getting ahead of my abilities, but i will only know if i try
filler? whats filler? Just messing with you. You can fill over primer. In Missouri its almost a must as steel turns to rust in about a half an hour. The key is keeping the total fill under 1/4 inch. The thinner your filler the better it will last. I'm not a big fan of the "stay with in the system" system, but if you haven't tested what products work well together it might be best not to experiment on your car. Any 2K primer will work with any paint, though. There is no magic that makes Dupont primers incompatible with House of Kolor paint. Although they would like you to believe that.
I hear a lot of people say not to put filler over primer but it is difficult, sometimes, to see if your contours are correct when looking at metal and and filler. Some imperfections are easier to see with a consistent color (primer) across the entire panel.
I would go with the sealer rough up with 80 and use a lightweight filler .You coat the entire panel do not just do spots .Get yourself a good hand longboard ,Also remember Spackling knives work great ,for spreading filler .Its basically like spackling a house .Just rougher to sand .I finish my bodywork in 80 prime and then glaze ....Icing .....Then reprime Another thing for squeegees and knives You will need Laquer thinner and at least 5 gallons .The red folgers containers are great for leaving your squeegees in Laquer thinner ..The red plastic ones .I have had mine submerged for months ,
If the primer on the car now is iffy, you'd probably be better off stripping it to bare steel and starting over with urethane primer. It's good stuff, you can put filler over it, it keeps moisture out, etc. Lotsa work, but it'll be worth it when you finally get that glossy paint on the car.
I like wiping panels down with wax and grease remover to make it shiny so you can check for minor flaws in the body work.
VRF, if you have a region that includes any small "transition" in height, often the process includes a plastic fill, longboard w/40g, re-cover w/fill & rubber block it 80g+, then feel it out and chase the scratches & fine "edges" w/120-240. All are approximate grades of paper. Weak metal benefits from having tiger hair, filler w/strands of reinforcement to stiffen things prior to bondo's magic.
Thanks Guys ..i will probably end up removing all the old primer and going with a new coat of epoxy primer when its time.. My body is very solid , it only had a few dented up areas at the back of the body , other than that its solid and thick steel, and after bumping on it i got it very close will not have any filler thicker than 1/32",,maybe 1/16" even in the worst areas, at least i dont believe unless i need to feather something out thats thicker in the center i wont do any filling over the enamel primer thats on it now.. my plan at this point is to learn as much as i can..i will probably get her up and road worthy and shook out before i strip , body work and paint..so this may not happen until the end of next season. But i have a lot of learning to do in the mean time. who knows i might get lucky and be able to pay a pro to do it, but it doesnt look that way now so I figure i best plan on doing it myself
If you didn't put that primer on there I would pull it off and start from a bare body, you don't need any misery from the unknown. A good system application is best, start to finish like the body guys recommend.
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