I just purchased what I thought was a 1951 Dodge Coronet from a dealership. After bringing it home I realized that the vin on the ***le does not match the car at all. Also the car is a 50 and not a 51. The dealership offered to buy the car back plus what I spent to get it to my house. I like the car and decided to try and get a ***le for it. A while back I bought a ***leless F-6 truck. I called up the DMV and got an inspection sheet for a police officer to fill out. All that was required beyond that was sales tax and 75 bucks and search to make sure the vehicle wasn't stolen. I called up the main DMV office. After waiting forever I finally got to talk to someone. The guy was a complete ***. At first he told me I was SOL which then I told him about my previous experience he then suddenly remembered that yes indeed there is a way to obtain a ***le without a record of one Apparently things have changed in the last year and now I need to obtain a bonded ***le. The bond needs to be 1.5 times the value of what the state thinks it is worth (which hopefully isn't something ridiculous). Apparently the ***le is kept under bond for 5 years and after that it becomes a clear ***le. I am getting the paperwork sent to me for the police officer to inspect it. While I am not thrilled with having to spend money for a bond and paying tax on what the state values the car at I am even less thrilled at the DMV dude's piss poor at***ude. I kept my cool although I just about hung up after he asked me the third time why I didn't have a ***le (all the while giving me a major at***ude). The last time I had dealt with the DMV on this subject (the F6) I talked to a woman who was very helpful and thought it was awesome that I wanted to fix up an old vehicle. My question is has anyone went the bonded ***le route in Wisconsin? What can I expect in the way of BS? Thanks.
I have not had to deal with Wisconsin DMV about bonded ***les, I can, only, tell you, that, the bonded ***le procedure has been one of DMV's ***ling procedures for many years. Usually, it is not a horrific procedure, just time consuming. I commend you on your patience with DMV procedures and their employees. Wisconsin DOT and the DMV have a history of changing procedures, policies and at***udes at a moments notice. Of the many cars and motorcycles that, I have processed thru Wis DMV ***ling and licensing, the ease or difficulty that, I encountered, usually reflected the at***ude and knowledge of the person behind the DMV counter. Based on the above comment, I don't know what kind of BS is headed your way. Your patience will be your best plan. On any given day, the DMV does what it wants. If, possible, get the ***le, first, in your hand, go for license plates after the ***le is in your hand. Wis DMV has begun a more intense review of ***le and specialty license plate applications for pre 1985 vehicles. At this time, WIS DMV has changed their procedure for issuing "HOBBYIST" license plates. Some applicants have waited 3 to 6 months to get the "HOBBYIST" plate. During the DMV review of the application, they are holding your $200.00. I don't suggest applying for a "HOBBYIST" license plate. I hope, someone, from Wisconsin, can give you a brighter, more positve response. Good Luck. Curt R
I did the bonded ***le a year ago on my 29. I had a frame that actually belonged to my dad, with the VIN. I had a county sherrif come out and verify the VIN, after building the car, fill in the form and sent in pictures of the car and all my reciepts and a letter explaining that the frame had belonged to my dad who died in 1974, and the rest of the car had been rusted so badly over the years that only a few parts were usable. The state sent back a letter stating that they determined the value to be $16,000.00, so I needed to get a surety bond for $24,000.00. I went to my ins. co. ( State Farm ) and paid $360.00, ( $1.50 per $100.00 ) and got a bond issued in about 10 days, sent it to the state and had a ***le back in a couple of weeks. That's the right way to do it, and believe me it pays to follow the rules. ( Peace of mind ) I got a know it all jerk the first time I called the state but I just hung up and called back, got a real helpful gal the second time. Don't get frustrated, it'll work.
I would have handled it a bit differently. I would insist that the dealership get the ****in' ***le straight, or I would have my attorney make them wish they never pulled that trick again.
I could'nt agree more, I've been in the car business in Wisc. for 37 years and they could get into deep **** with DMV for that one. You know what I mean, I'd hate for them to give us car dealers a bad name....
Not that I would ever suggest doing anything, let's say, outside the law, but I think it would be... ...way cheaper and less ******** to just find a ***le and tag from a '50 Dodge and then the tag can magically find it's way onto your car with a couple of magic rivets and you hand the ***le in at a DMV office that you haven't talked to yet. The state makes it a real ***** to do it their way.
I too got a ***le for a ***le-less vehicle here about 3 years ago. Very easy process. Fast forward three years, went through the same drill except this time a got a complete **** on the phone from the DMV. A different deputy came out to inspect the vehicle, and I got no ***le. Apparantly things have changed for the worse. I was told to finish the car and call them back for an inspection. At this time they will ***ign a VIN and give me a value of the car so I can pay the proper tax. What a load of ****!
I would never do that, those loose ***les are for display purposes only, I would never go to the DMV with one of those, pay the licensing fees and walk out in less than a half hour. I much rather go through all the hoops like trained dog. I also don't have much patience for any government worker that gives me lip. I remind them they work for me, not the other way around.
I agree with a couple of the others, why should you clean up the dealerships mess? make them get the ***le for the car you bought. in the very least they should have their own lawyer who can maybe move things along a little quicker than you as an individual can. As I see it right now they (the dealer) have your money & you have a vehicle that you cannot drive and cannot (easily) register. Maybe mention to the owner/manager of the dealership that you are going to go to the DMV & let them know that you bought a car from such & such a dealer but the VIN on the ***le and the VIN on the car don't match. Then sit back & watch all hell break loose. I bet your issue gets solved real quick.
Ouch! I hope my experience doesn't mirror your second one. There is a state trooper that did the last inspection for me. I let him do it when he felt like it (best to be patient). He had a great at***ude although it probably helped that he used to work with my Father in the DOC. I tried getting the local deputies out there, all they did was give me an at***ude. Most likely I'll request for the same trooper. It helps when you tell them exactly where to look. I never followed all the way through on the F6 because I sold it before I tried finishing the process. I think what hurt you with the second time was that they wanted to ***ign a VIN. I am hoping because there is an easily readable VIN on mine that the process will go smooth but one never can know. The tard on the phone told me that I have to pay tax on what they access it at in it's current state. I think it is complete **** that they can access a value higher than I bought the car for. There is nothing I can do about though besides grin and bare it. I could have just used the 51 ***le and been quiet about it but it just didn't sit well with me. There is a small outside chance that the dealership might be able to obtain the correct ***le from the previous dealership that had the car. In the mean time I'll operate under the ***umption that the ***le is long gone and get everything set up.
I would never do the same thing...Id rather deal with the headache and knobs that work for the state...The words I would use to describe the people that work at the DMV counters in Wisconsin would be illegal in most states...blood pressure is going up thinking about it.. As another mentioned dont try for a hobby plate...it is a waste of time and money.
some of you guy's must not have read the original post? the dealer ship offer to buy it back plus cost,with the **** more would you want? as far as bonded ***le,it's no big deal just the extra cost of bond,***le looks like any other.only you and the state knows it's bonded.
Yeah the dealership has been pretty easy to work with. I could have just got my money back and then some but I want to get this thing on the road.
The problem with telling the dealership to deal with it, is that they won't want to sort it out, especially given the fact that it was such a nice car for a screamin' deal. If the DMV gives them some ****, they might be forced to junk the car because it's not ***led. That's why I'm (not) suggesting just finding a ***le and tag to put with the car. I would(n't) check the cl***ifieds, there are(n't) lots of them for sale there, and I would(n't) expect to find one pretty cheap considering they're a fairly common and not entirely desirable car in the 4 door body style. The cost of buying a ***le (that I totally didn't suggest you do, wink nudge) will be considerably less than the ****pile of tax you'll have to pay with the bonded ***le, not to mention you can't sell the car for 5 years while the DMV sits around with it's collective thumbs up it's collective ***.
Well not being able to sell it doesn't bother me, what does is the potential for me to have to pay a "****pile" of tax on a 500 dollar car. I am going to go the legal beagle route on this but I can definitely see the advantages of getting a "historical" do***ent over the BS of a bonded ***le. My fear is though the car that the "historical" do***ent was attached to surfaces somewhere and then it invalidates my registration. Heck it is entirely possible that someone somewhere out there has a historical do***ent connected to my car. I will call in and see if there is anything on the VIN on the car (just in case someone else has a car registered with it). I once almost bought a truck. I remembered the guy wanted a hundred less bucks for it without a ***le which I thought was retarded. Unless the vehicle got turned into cheap China made silverware there is always the possibility that the history behind the historical do***ent could come back and haunt you.
hey, is that the one from west side auto? that car runs/drives doesnt it? glad to see it got a good home!
Yes it is from West Side. It does run although the drive part is a bit of a stretch The rear drums are sticking pretty bad at the moment. I've got it to move backwards and forwards a couple of feet. Perhaps next week I'll be closer to being able to take a around the block test drive. I don't want to stick in much money until I know I have the ***le business sorted out.
'On any given day, the DMV does what it wants.' I like that comment Curt R. Wrote, it's so true. If some DMV employees didn't get laid or got cold pizza from the delivery boy the night before, then it follows them to work. They feel obligated to piss on anyone they like without worries of getting fired. On another note, Wisconsin has one of the worst environments to do any business in, it's a tax hell and use any Government intervention, including the DMV, to impliment ways of getting every cent they can get...by reading some responses, they have the authority to give a monetary value your car? that's big Government at work.
In my previous post in this thread I told you my experience with DMV Wisc. The difference between 99.9% of the cases is that you bought your car from a licensed Wisc. dealer. If that's the case the state of Wisc. dealer ***leing and liscenceing law says it is the dealers responsibilty to apply for ***le and plates, or ***le only. It would be my guess that when you take the paperwork to DMV the first question should be "where did you get the car"? If it was from a dealer they are responsible for getting the ***le straight for you. Them saying they won't just does'nt cut it. I would pursue that avenue first.
Not quite true, I would agree for the most part but as in my case the value the DMV established was to set the bond amount, I sent in pictures and receipts so they could establish that. I did not pay any tax at all to the state, all of the receipts I sent had tax paid when I bought the parts for the car. In his case the tax should have been paid to the dealer when he bought the car, If he goes the bond route the only thing he should have to pay is the amount of the bond. And that goes to the people that issue the bond, not the state.
The dealer sent back all my money in relation to the tax and ***le. The dealership is going to fill out a bill of sale for me and send that to my address. I am crossing my fingers that everything will work out.
I have pieces of a 32 I am puttin together to make a 5 window I will have the same problem , no ***le. what about a ***le service? Or the Alabama bill of sale route? Also No VIN on mine as it is an aftermarket frame. what to do?
Please keep us posted on what's going on and how everything works out. kinda in the same boat with a project and will be again next year with another project
The dealership committed fraud when the sold the car with an invalid ***le. I can't believe they didn't know of the discrepancy. It's what they do. Somebody gets paid to check the VIN on the cars they sell. I would want them to suffer some penalty, not just be allowed to give a refund, and p*** that same car on to some other unsuspecting citizen. Get a good criminal lawyer and close them down.
If they (the dealer) are going to wash their hands of it & sell the car to you with a bill of sale only, then IMO the car is worth 1/2 to 2/3 less than it would be with a ***le. they should refund you a large portion of the $$$ you paid them just for the h***le you have/are going to go through. I would suggest seeking some advice from someone a little more knowledgeable about this situation that a bunch of angry hot rodders. may be worth a consultation with a lawyer - could be money well spent.
It's a super nice car that he bought for $500. Selling it probably kept it from getting s****ped since it didn't have a ***le. The dealers are the good guys here. They didn't know there was an issue.
the dealers are the good guys? Not IMO. say that he had not caught the discrepancy & registered the car with the ***le he was given by the dealer. a year goes past & he gets pulled over by a johnny law with an at***ude. johnny law checks his paperwork over & discovers that the VIN on the ***le & the VIN on the car don't match. Now the owner is in a world of deep **** with the law & it is not his doing, he is an innocent party. However the phrase that the police like to use is "ignorance of the law is no excuse". At the very minimum there would be towing & impound fees to be paid & he would likely get several tickets to boot depending on how much of a **** the cop wants to be and whether he thinks you are lying to him or not. whether the dealer was at fault or not would be up to the lawyers. expensive way to do things for sure. A used car dealer should be checking EVERY used car to ensure that the paperwork & the car match. might not be a law but it is just good sense, it will help to avoid a situation like this. Reminds me of a dealer near me several years ago. they sold 2 new mid 90's cavalier's on the same day. both 2 doors, both green. identical belly****on cars. whoever did the paperwork mixed them up. the mistake did not get caught for a year or so when something like the situation I described above happened. cop ran the #'s on the cavalier & charged the owner for forged/false paperwork. the guy takes it to court since he bought the car new & did nothing to the paperwork on the car. it comes out in the end that the dealer screwed up right at the start when registering the car. the cops ran down the other car & it has the VIN that matches the first guys paperwork & paperwork that matches the first guys VIN. Now there are 2 pissed off owners that cannot use their vehicles because of improper paperwork. Eventually it got sorted out but it took several months to do. the end result was that there were 2 guys unable to drive vehicles for several months that they had legally purchased. several months storage fees on the car impounded by the police, several months rentals on 2 vehicles that the owners of the two cars in question drove while the situation was sorted out plus several fines levied for the initial screwup and the difficulties created when trying to sort it all out. All paid by the dealer after some legal wrangling. pretty expensive mistake on the part of the dealer. Imagine the problems that would have surfaced if an accident had happened where someone was injured or killed involving one of the cars with bad paperwork..... Driving a car with questionable registration is a bad plan. the dealer selling a car with bad paperwork is even worse. PhilJohnson, you are doing the right thing IMO getting proper do***ents on the car even though it is going to be a h***le. less headaches down the road. Good luck with the red tape, hope it is not too difficult.
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