PPG black lacquer and DCA468 clear has not changed in over 30yrs. Got that info direct from the lady that was a top lab director about 3yrs ago. Their gloss index with polished lacquer is the standard they're trying to achieve with their urethanes. Back on topic, protect yourself. Ventilation is the key. VENTILATION. Buy a good respirator. They only cost like $25-30 bucks. Well worth it. Acrylic enamel sucks. Even with a hardener (nasty stuff) it still stays soft for a day or more. Hate it. Very old school industrial finish technology. Now that I've said that I'll hear about all the great acrylic enamel jobs guys have done, but that's ok. It does work and you will do just that, WORK to get it showy and pretty. Sometimes just a light coat of enamel is fine and it'll dry quicker and be durable so don't try to get a ton of coverage out of it. Thickness is the enemy of any paint finish. It's a coating not a layer. The reason multi-colored kustom finishes are so expensive is because of all the labor involved to keep the mil thickness down between coats. If you want to use lacquer it'll be ok but you'll have to buff it. You're probably using a gravity feed gun, right? Be careful as to how heavy each coat goes on with those guns. Don't use a fast dry or "cold shop" thinner. It'll stripe on ya and gravel up between your overlaps. You're better off applying 10 well reduced coats with a gravity gun with plenty of time between to let the vapors out of each coat. Each coat will need more time in between. For example, your 1st and maybe 2nd coats will be ready in like 5-7min. By the time you get to building enough for a good buff you'll want to wait a good 10-15min between coats. It has to purge. The more it builds the more purge time required. Test by pressing your thumb in an inconspicuous area and see how easy it "prints". 1st coats, maybe no print at all, again by the time you layer up you'll see what I mean. Good luck and take your time. Painting can be as rewarding as it is frustrating.
My friend had his lacquer painted T bucket in an indoor show in Febuary. Its a beauty! He won his class and drove it home. The temperature shock shattered the paint so badly it had to be stripped and redone. Lacquer certainly can crack with extreme temperture changes.
I love acrylic lacquer. i find that the new 2paks and urethanes always look cheap and "plastic" nothing beats a crisp flat hand rubbed lacquer finish. its also alot more forgiving to spot in or repair, i work in smash repairs and cop a lot of flack over my opinion, but i just cant find a urethane that looks as nice, my two cents!
I call BS on prettymuch all of that. People have different sensitivities to the isocyanates in 2K. Some can do it for years with no problems. Others will get sick and even die the first time. Don't risk it, use the proper PPE. Lacquer does also have its own risks. Again use PPE. I spilled petrol on my lacquer painted car a bunch of times, it didn't "reactivate" anything. The stain polishes off just like 2K. Crack in the winter? Dunno, doesn't get cold here. It will crack if you put too much on, that includes previous paint jobs. Start from metal and it'll be fine. I do agree about UV resistance though. In the Aussie sun, I could polish my black lacquer every weekend to keep it shiny.
not sure about NY regs, but I'd guess you can't buy laquer there anymore. acrylic or urathene enamel is not a big deal. wear a good cartidge style respirator and I'd suggest a disposable painters suit just because of the "sticky-all-over" the overspray tends to cause and you'll be fine. techinically you can can paint without the respirator, but it makes for a helluva hangover after the fact. I still yell at my dad for doing spot-jobs maskless. I dont' even sand bondo w/o a mask now--kills my asthma.
Hey, I saw your coupe at the Moab, UT. show a couple of years ago...one of my favorites at that show...my wife and I had a great time too...Topless
Yep. I looked everywhere on myself for the label that tells me what my own sensitivity is. Couldn't find it. Guess I'm still a lacquer guy.
I was always wondering about that. I wondered if I could use laquer as a base coat to do a really wild custom job,then use a urethane to clear over it. Laquer is great because you can tape over it about 30 seconds after you stop pulling the trigger. That makes life easy for a paint job with 15 different colors,fades and candy coats. With the recoat wiindows of urethanes I wnder how you could even do a job like wild fish scale and ribbon patterned candy coats with fades and all that.
Fumes coming from (the specific products you asked about) in contact with your skin, eyes, and lungs are poison. Appropriate breathing mask approved for those specific products, Full mask covering face and eyes and all skin, in a well ventelated area where air moves the mist away from you.
Comparing original finishes...painted with nitrocellulose lacquer...to "modern" ones painted with acrylic lacquer is comparing apples to oranges. I painted my '57 with acrylic lacquer back in the late '80s, and it had cracks in it within a few years. In fact, it now has the "patina" that so many are after! Granted, its black, and GA is pretty hot in the summer, so that may have affected it too. I won't use it again. Granted, I did drive it everywhere (including college, where it wasn't garaged), so your results may vary. Personally, I'd use base/clear and the proper safety equipment. BTW, I got a quick lesson on using a proper mask the first time I sprayed any acrylic urethane, which was probably early 90s. We had a really bad ant problem in the the shop, and nothing seemed to keep them out long term. Till I sprayed the urethane. It killed every one of them.
i know some have said you can uerothane clear over laquer. in my experiance it goes on fine buffs out nice, then starts peeling off in sheets.. maybe its just me .
It has been my experience that acrylic urethane will not adhere to an acrylic lacquer base, however Polyuerethane clear will adhere very well (Imron) Used to do those Indian-blanket paint jobs on conversion vans...used acrylic lacquer as a base and clear-coated with Imron...still some around that look good after 30 years.
That's always been a problem. Conventional wisdom isn't always correct. What seems logical sometimes isn't how things really are. People get away with things, leading them to believe a bad idea is good or safe. Even experts with years of experience may have misconceptions about some aspect(s) of their vocation. The internet is a good source of info, but one needs to do enough research and thinking to sort the good info/advise from the bad.
Laquer is not an inferior product in any way shape or form. Laquer will crack if you spray it on so think that it makes your car bigger. All paint has health concerns when inhaled, even the new water based paints from what I have read. Of the two laquer v enamel laquer is by far the most forgiving. Remember non of the above mentioned paints are inferior there are just inferior painters.
All things being equal, "old school" enamels(mostly alkyd) were less prone to chipping than lacquer(nitrocellulose), but didn't stay glossy as long and weren't as durable. With early generation acrylic lacquer and enamels, acrylic lacquer was less prone to chipping than acrylic enamel. Later good quality acrylic enamels are very glossy, durable, and chip-resistant. With many acrylic enamels a catalyzing additive can be used that further improves gloss, durability, and chemical resistance. All things being equal, the gloss and gloss retention of urethane is superior to acrylic enamel, but not dramatically so. I have used quite a bit of urethane and acrylic enamel and would not hesitate to paint a car, even a nice one, with acrylic enamel. To reinforce what has already been said several times, all of these paints are bad for you. Urethane is just quite a bit worse. The same is true of catalyzed acrylic enamel, primers, and sealers. Epoxy and urethane based primers are essentially as dangerous as urethane paint. The really bad stuff in urethane can be absorbed through the skin, so even with a supplied air respirator you should be fully hooded and suited up.
The label "Crap" is put on everything that a user has a problem with. But it is usually only one mans opinion. Be it product, service or whatever. That is why it is so hard to find the truth in opinions.
No, not really, think about it. Read about all the inferior CHinese products being flooded onto our markets, that just plain SUCK. I had a hard time finding good wheel studs for an OT car, cause the cheapo replacements kept stripping out. What about all the failures of cheap tools, poorly made rod parts. Harbor Freight, SPeedway, etc. Paint is no different. They make good paint for more money, for high end paint jobs. They make cheap paint for cars painted for used car lots. There IS a difference! So even in the limited chemistries of lacquer vs. enamel, there are differences. Add to that the ban on certain metals, and chemicals in our paints, and there is a big difference in quality. Both chemistries were used by OEMs, and both worked well, and survived over the years.. BUT the paints used by the big factories were probably different formulations, and applied differently (the whole process...prep, primer, paint) AND the paints were additized, so they could be oven baked for a more durable finish. Air dry versions work OK too, but not as well. Lacquers DO tend to "dry out" over the years and then crack. Paint and prep work would also make this happen sooner, or later. Thicker films of lacquer will fial sooner than thinner ones. Not using the right temp reducer, or laying on coats too thick, or too fast will also cause failure. Poor maintenance will also lead to early failure. Lacquers realy need to be polished and waxed often to last. Enamels are more durable, don't need polishing (though you could, after they are completely dry...or cured, use hardeners!) They WILL stay soft longer. They do go on thicker. They do look less "deep", more plasticky. To cut through the confusion here, you need to be listening to the guys here with REAL paint experience, ones with years of working with paint. Not guys who once watched a friend's uncle paint an old VW once.Or guys with 10 years of painting experience....with spray cans! Funny, you never see such expression of opinion from amateurs on engine building threads, or suspension discussions. But you always get the know-nothings and wanna-bees on paint threads!
haha well said marc!! i will add to this once more. i am no painter by anymeans but the best paint jobs i have ever done have simply been with black centary enamel, (99a) with the super wet look hardener. after a couple weeks wet sanded and buffed. looked like glass. and after 15 years it still looks good. i have had decent luck with lots of paint, but i just loves me some centari !!
chopolds, as usual you get it. The difference is also that I can prep and touch up a 15-20yr old restoration and still go out and get a winning score or concours award. Hard to do when that cheapo jumbo deal paint went bad due to lack of UV protective content and not only will it not buff, it'll craze and swell if you try to blend it. As always, you get what you pay for. We'll be seeing a lot of paint threads over the next few weeks. That time of year, huh?
Chopolds I know what you mean. But for a guy to make a general broad statement that Laquer paint is crap? That is purely opinion and based on his faiures with it or worse, hearsay.
The Jalopy Journal
