TECH: Pete & Jake Style Ladder Bars

I know it’s not tech week, I’m a little behind, but I figured I’d give her a go anyway. This is the first set of these that I have made. In fact I’m fairly new to any fabrication, so this is one of my first “homemade” projects I’ve done for a hot rod. Most of my experience has been pulling and swapping motors, changing out a ****** or starter, easy stuff. My dad never had a welder, so I wasn’t fortunate enough to learn from him, but I always wanted to do stuff that required welding. So I just went out and bought a used Milermatic 210. My neighbor is a welding instructor so luckily I get to tap his brain…..also, if I have something critical I need welded, I offer him a beer and say “Oh by the way would you mind welding this up for me?” He usually says sure, but you do a pretty good job, it would have been fine. I guess I don’t trust myself enough……..anyway, on to the Ladder bars.

I figure a set of them cost about $400, the metal, tubing and clevises cost me a total of $75. I did some research as to what tubing, metal to use, so I feel pretty good about the set-up.

I bought some clevises from Speedway Motors part number: 91002006 ($6/ea) (5/8" thread with 3/8" slot); I also got some bushings for the cross-member mount (pivot end) part number: 91008016 ($25/for set) (5/8”) these were also listed as four bar ends. Then I went to the metal store with one bushing to find tubing that the bushing will fit into (snug). This will be the pivot end of your ladder bars. You don’t need a lot of this tubing, it will be 2 pieces that are 1 ¾” wide. See picture for bushing dimensions. The tubing for the actual bars that I used is 7/8” OD and probably about 1/8” thick. You need enough meat on them to be able to tap threads on the inside for the clevis ends. Be sure you get DOM (drawn over mandrel) steel, don’t go to Home Depot and buy the black metal stuff it won’t hold up as well as the DOM!! Be sure to get some good steel. I cut four lengths of tubing at 43” then I tapped one end of each tube (4) with a manual tap (I had to buy a 5/8” fine threaded tap at ACE Hardware ($15)….ACE is the place!!) I also had to forcefully fit my tap to the small handle I had in my craftsman set. Oh well. See picture for manual machining J. I don’t have any machining equipment nor access so this was all done with what I had in my garage and available at local hardware store. I locked the tubing in a vise and turned the tap by hand. Be sure you are going down STRAIGHT, I got one crooked and had to turn it over and use the other end. I would turn about an inch, back the tap off and clean it out, then proceed again, repeating this several times. Don’t try to do it all at once it will get clogged and probably break the tap. Once I have the ends tapped I inserted the clevis ends and started mocking up the ends to figure out how long I need the tubing, etc. See picture. My clevis ends are about 5” apart, I would probably space them a little farther apart next time (about 6-7 inches). This should work out fine though. I cut the pivot ends to be equal in length and match the contour of the round tubing, so I can weld them all together. I used a square to make sure I got the pivot end tubing SQUARE to the ladder bars.

Presto….You have what is starting to look like a set of ladder bars!! Now you need to make the mounts. The clevis ends have a 3/8” gap, so you’ll need 3/8” plate to make the mounts on the rear end. I got some plate that was actually a little thinner than 3/8” and I will use a washer to fill the gap/difference. A plasma cutter or torch will be needed. I don’t have either so I had my neighbor cut them out at work for me. I traced them onto cardboard then transferred it to the metal. You can do the same to make the tabs that you will weld to the pivot cross-member. My pivot cross-member is about 1 ¾” OD with a pretty thick wall. Same stuff they usually make roll cages with. You’ve got options as to what to use, as long as it’s strong enough to take the abuse it will. All you have left is to add a brace in the ladder bars, probably closer to the rear that the front pivot, there is more room and it will give it more strength. You can be creative with the bracing, I haven’t put it in yet, I am going to wait till I have it mounted so the ends have a little bit of movement while I mock it all up in the ch***is. It will probably be a 3/16’ plate with slight curves, nothing too fancy for me.

I don’t have it mounted up yet, but when I do I’ll add a picture. It is going in a 32 ch***is. This should give you a good idea. Also, when I do it again, I will be sure to space the pivot ends a little farther apart when I weld them to the tubing that will house the bushing. And I will also space the clevis ends a little farther apart. But other wise they turned out really good. J

 

Saved yourself about 325 bucks.......

 

sweet!

 

Great post.

I need a neighbor that is a welding instructor.

 

Looking good. You've saved plenty of dollars to go towards other good stuff. I sure wish I had a steel supplier nearby me where I could walk in and look at sizes and profiles. It must be so much easier knowing just what is available, when you start planning what you want to build.

 

Hey anyone thinking of building these I have a set of p&j stainless clevis from mooneyes that i didn't use on my 33. would make a deal.
thanks, Dave

 

Nice work. Always good to see people have a go themselves. A forgotten thing in todays throwaway society !!

Rat

 

Nice job on the bars and tech.

 

Good job!!!!!

 

Thanks for the tech. I'm getting ready to do the same thing but I'm using rod ends instead of clevis's. Have to make 4 rear end brackets instead of two.
Are you going to use a panhard bar or a diagonal bar to locate the rear end?

 

I will angle the ladder bars in, and run it sans panhard bar, coilover shocks.

 

You will still need a panhard bar, or some sort of stabiliser for the ladder bar style rearend setup, for certian if you run coilovers. I have seen a buggy spring used and no panhard bar but there is still side to side movement with the shackles.

I have the same rear end setup under my roadster and it rides like a dream. I have lots of miles on and off the road

Great tech post by the way.

 

There's nothing there holding your axle central, so it'll flop about all over. You need a Panhard rod with coilovers.

 

Yeah nice post - youll definitely need a panhgard bar though if your only running coilovers - mine swayed in thge breeze before I put one on:







Steve

 

I'd suggest you add a spacer between the upper and lower bar in the middle as Flattiesteve did here. Often it's the same tubing stock as the bars. Without it the lower bar can bow out (shortening it) letting the axle wrap. The pinion ends up pointing at the floor boards after a bonzai hole shot. It's worth the few minutes of addition work. IMHO

 

I lke the way you yhink and the fact you built your own but,....If you dont use at least 3/4 stuff you may find yourself in my position.I took my old ford to the drags 2 weeks ago with real slicks on it and in 4 p***es went from 2 deg down angle on the pinion to 3.5 up .I'd recommend a minimum of 3/4 and if I do ladders again on mine instead of a g-body set up I'll use 1".

Just some food for thought.The ladders are beautiful though.T.OUT

 

Good point on the 3/4 stuff and the panhard bar. I will definatley run a panhard bar with the coilovers. I'm not planning on a drag strip car with this set-up, so I gotta believe that the metal thickness should hold up. I will also be adding a stiffiner spacer once I get them mocked in there. All good points, thanks for all the response!!

 

I know I'm about 5 years behind on this, what a great thread! I'm getting ready to embark on the same project and was wondering who else had made their own set? I was planning on buying the P&J rearend brackets and using 7/8 tubing and tube adaptor with rod ends for the clevis. The pivot end I'm still debating over rod ends or bushed ends like P&J.

One question I have is on the pan hard bar. Does it need to run from the frame to the rearend??? Coming from a drag racing background mostly, I've seen alot of ladder bars that the panhard bar runs diagonal from left front to right rear mounting points for the ladder bars with a clevis. Now those are paralle, where these are angled in, does that matter? I wanna make sure I'm not missing the obvious!

Here is an example of the pan hard bar I have in mind:



Here is the clevis for the panhard bar. The way I'm talking about the bar will have to have rod ends

 

i've made many copies of Pete & Jakes ladder bars , so many that i made my own jig to weld them. as for the panhard bar, i'd go from the frame to the axle. i don't care for the one you pictured

 

Excellent thread,Subscribed.

 

What about that type don't you like? I know that sounds like I'm being ****py, please don't take it that way, I just want to be educated about it.

 

I'm not the guy you asked...but the drag racing style ladder bars are parallel and won't allow any body roll in a corner. You'll be stressing all the rear suspension and also trying to lift the inside wheel in a hard corner or when turning onto an incline etc. The possibility of breaking parts is real and the handling suffers as well.

PJ style, like GM truck arms, focus the forward rubber bushed pivots to the centerline of the vehicle which allows normal body roll and much less suspension stress/better handling.
The diagonal link you show isn't going to work with the properly focused bars (no room!) so a normal cross mounted Panhard bar is used.
Simple and reliable...just like the Nascar rear suspension thats based off the same layout.

 

We been making them the same way for years...

 

Thanks dude! So frame to 3rd member it is! Let me ask this, what is the advantage / reason for having the panhard bar mounting to the center section vs. to a tab off the axle tube like in the pictures BobbyD posted? Is the idea to get it parallel to the ground, so mount it where ever that will land? Should you aim for a particular length for the panhard bar?

Falling back again into the drag racing ways, should you get the bottom bar of the ladder bar parallel as possible to the ground? I've heard locals saying you want them parallel to the frame?

OK, one last question, I think...how is the best way to determine how long to make the ladder bars themselves?

 

That setup is usually a Drag setup. The bar is called a track locater, Panhard rod as long as possible will be much better in my opinion.
In an ideal world use a Watts linkage, they work real good.

Its not suitable for the street in my opinion. Also the longer the ladder bars and have them as close together as possible at the ch***is end the better they will work, Having them wide apart will introduce bind when the axle articulates.

Also secure the ch***is end of the panhard rod the same side as the steering box is mounted.

I prefer 1" tube and weld in threaded inserts, much better than threading the tube.

 

The longer the panhard is the better it will work, Short panhard is not good as the arc it travels in will shorten as it arcs.

 

Look, I'll make this short as it's been discussed enough times already :
drag race suspension is not suitable for street use. Whatever you do, mount the front bushes in the middle of the car.

 

very nice

 

Thanks for the tech man, I was thinking about building my own ladder bars but I need to build my x-member first maybe I will start a thread to see how people have built their own x-members.

 

When installing the ladder bars, does the bottom bar need to run parallel with the ground?