Here's the story i have this old Champ center section with no gears except the pinion & shaft. I'm in no hurry on this thing but would like it in a 39 maybe if its possible, & i realize the whole rearend will have to mount different. So here's my question i'm told the champ takes the bigger gears like were fitted in the trucks hence they are stronger. I need fairly quick answers as this ends on egay soon, is this correct gears for the champ rear....if not does anyone know what i should be looking for? TIA http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=34208&item=4527474610&rd=1
I think the tip off is the bolt hole pattern on the case where endbells mount. The truck rear end in the picture is the same as a car (I think) your QC is larger. I think you need 3/4 or 1 ton gears. But ask around I am not the expert.
The Halibrand Champ rear used 3/4 ton Ford truck ring and pinion. I believe that the pinion had special machining done to it for this application. The problem with those things, for street use, was getting a differential (spiders, etc.) in them. Some guys run Detroit lockers and I'm not sure how well they're suited to street use. It seems like that would be a "clunky" solution and those things are noisy to start with because of the straight-cut ring and pinion and change gears. I believe Winters Performance builds a street version of the Champ that uses a hypoid gearset and has axle housings and modern axles.
One more thing....there are aluminum side plates that adapt that center section to early Ford passenger car axle housings. That doesn't solve the differential problem however. The Champ rears were intended for racing purposes and used either a spool or an open-tube rear axle. I have a steel 3" open tube axle for one of those leaning in the corner of my shop.
Dave you might be sitting on a very expensive flower pot!! Oldspeed thanks for that reply, i hear what you are saying & i think you hit the nail on the head. That stock case & gears does look like car size & not the 3/4 ton that i need, trouble is i've not seen the Halibrand in the flesh yet because its still at A32flatbeds house until i bring home! so i haven't really seen how big the sucker is. Kev.
Dave have you got any measurements accross the flanges where the bells bolt on, this may clarify whether or not its a V8 or Champ......i was sold it as a Champ. In the pic the pinion gear looks to be helical, i know the change gears would be straight, Dave if you get 5 mins have look inside the end cover & take a pic...there's another pack of Rich Tea in it for ya! Thanks for the input guys....its all good info just learning about these things. Kev.
My Champ has twelve bolts per side. It's my understanding that some 11-bolt cases and end bells were made, but the 12-bolt parts are more common. On mine, the center-to-center distance between two opposing holes is 11". Dave http://www.roadsters.com/
Diffs are not a problem. Winters make the WintersTrac that is a streetable "posi" Do a search for zmans post on Quickchanges from a few weeks back.
What you have is a 10 spline Q/C rear end. It takes the old Ford 3/4 ton ring and pinion. This is NOT a V8 Q/C, they are 6 spline and uses the passenger car R&P (read this a weak and breakage prone if you're going to put any serious horsepower through it). The Champ (3/4 ton) rear ends take a Q/C gear set that has 10 splines. The most common R&P ratios for the 10 spline rear are 4:11, 4:56 and 4:86. With the 4:86 you can gear from 2:58 to 9:15. Remember, each set of Q/C gears is able to go high and low (2 ratios, little gear on bottom or big gear on bottom). Example: gear set #4 (# of teeth 24/31) with a 4:86 R&P will be a 6.28 on the high side and a 3.26 on the low side. Most Q/C gears are square cut, and cost $60 - $90 per set depending on the quality. They recently started to make helical cut Q/C gear sets, but they're quite expensive. I sell good used gearsets at the swap meets for $20 a set. Sold out right now, business was good at Brad's last Lanier Swap Meet! They made side plate adapters to mount V8 rear side bells to this rear end. I wouldn't run them. For the street I'd run the side bells for a 3" axle tube and put Ford 9" axle bearing flanges on the tube ends. Run the Detroit locker, which you can change the internal springs, and have Moser cut you some 9" ford axles with the spline to match the carrier. Presto, an almost indestructable rear end with infinite gear ratio changes.
Now we talking.......thanks modifieddriver......more great info. Kev. Here's the link to zmans post; http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41360&page=1&pp=20&highlight=quickchange
What was explained to was; There are midget rear ends( they use model A parts and are thinner than V8's), there are V8's, 3/4 rear ends( they use 3/4 ton truck parts and have 11 bolt sides), and there are Champ rear ends( they have 12 bolt sides).
www.wintersperformance.com Limey, you may be interested to hear that Hauser Racing keeps alot of Winters stuff, including heavy duty gears. They use the same centre in ASCAR at Rockingham.
Looks like mine is a 3/4 then! Gasser i was thinking Hauser would stock some of the parts i might need, but first i need to find some 3/4 ton rear ends to rob the other parts i need.
Thats a great help, at least i know not to give up on this thing now i have more insight into whats needed. The main thing is i have time on my side to hunt the parts. thanks Kev.
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