While removing the timing cover from my Nailhead and snapped a bolt. then I noticed that one of the previous owners throughout its 50 year life also snapped a bolt to the water pump. I tried a left handed drill bit on the water pump bolt with no success. Before I try to remove the one in the block do you guys have any suggestions?
Send a PM to Flatbrad. He had a bunch of busted head studs in his flathead block and got 'em all out. I was just trying to remember how he did it but he could tell you better himself. Pete
From this link.... http://www.reds-headers.com/html/red_s_engine_talk_22.html With a stud or bolt of which the head has sheared off due to corrosion or damaged (stretched) threads.... #1) However elementary, Please Take notice that a bolt/stud almost always breaks off reasonably flush with the surrounding surface. Example: In the attempt to remove the heads from say a 32 to 53(54) flat motor, some of the studs will back out and some of the nuts will loosen easily - but often we are left with studs that may have, over time - adhered to the surrounding cast metal of the block and under no cir***stance, are they going to back out in one piece... As a journeyman machinist with a welding ticket to back me up, I have run across this situation countless times in the past 30 or so years, here is a tip that in practice will almost always back a broken fastener out of a cast iron block (or any cast machine part) without fail and will work (with minor adjustments) on cast aluminum as well-in less time than it takes to read this message. Given- -in practice, I have found that the smaller (diameter) the bolt/stud is, the easier it is to twist off during dis***embly-but by definition, the smaller the broken stud is, the easier it will be to remove as well. First - determine the diameter of the broken fastener: if the stud/bolt was say 7/16ths to begin with, then go to your bolt bin and find at least two 7/16 nuts for every broken stud. *Make sure that they are NOT cadmium or zinc plated (that the nut doesn't appear to look silver or gold). Secondly - With a pair of vise grips, Hold ONE nut directly over the top off the broken stud as if to simulate where a bolt head would reside if the broken stud had one. This will be as flush as possible with - and seated on the block as to simulate a bolt head. As mentioned earlier, most fasteners will shear off within +/- 1/16th of the blocks deck height and given these tolerances we will have plenty to work with. Using a MIG welder, (you don't need to be a journeyman welder to do this, just handy with a mig) we will attempt to weld the inside diameter of the nut to the broken stump of the stud. This sounds far more difficult than it actually is.... Using vise grips to position and hold the nut reasonably flush, carefully tack the inside of the nut to the broken stud, then stop and check for alignment. You can gently tap the nut into position remembering to keep it reasonably flush with the block's deck height. Now weld up the inside of the nut - aiming your weld at the broken stump. Take care in concentrating the heat and weld AT the broken stud, NOT at the nut. This will ***ure that you transfer as much of the puddles heat into the broken stud as possible (helps release the stud) and as you build your puddle up, it will automatically self weld to the nut. If your nut gets too hot, stop for a few seconds to let it cool as you do not want to melt or distort the hexagonal shape of the nut. This also allows more time for the heat to transfer further in. If you do by chance melt the nut beyond recognition, don't worry just start over with a new nut as the extra heat you transfer into the block will not harm it, it will only ***ist in freeing the stud. Do not worry about accidentally welding the nut to your priceless cast iron block as it ain't gonna happen, the reason being is that the process of welding the high carbon content of a cast (high grade steel) iron block (or any cast machine part) requires highly specialized techniques and materials that make it far immune to your standard Mig wire. Guaranteed. Now, In practice you have just welded a new head to the stud and should be left with what now looks like a standard bolt. ALSO in practice, I have found that the smaller diameter a broken fastener is/was, the less heat it will require to release the stud from its surroundings, that is to say... When you now put a wrench or socket on your self fabricated "bolt" and attempt to unscrew it, chances are that a smaller (3/8 or less) stud will back out EASILY on the first attempt. IF your newly formed 'bolt' head breaks off on it's first attempt to back it out, don't worry. This just means that you either tried to back it out before it cooled (was still RED hot) or you didn't transfer enough heat into the stud. (Or possibly you may need to practice your 'nut' welding technique a few times on some s**** pieces). Most of all, don't get discouraged, as even a basic rod builder or back yard mechanic can master this in minutes with just a little practice (and in the mean time impress the heck out of your buddies). Besides, In most cases it is very common for the nut to break free of the stud on the first attempt (this is why I had mentioned to find at least 2 nuts per broken stud), As generally the heat ***ociated from the first attempt is seldom enough to heat and expand the broken stud thus freeing it from its surroundings. I have used this technique on everything from 1/4 inch aluminum transmission pan bolts (ever try welding the inside of a 1/4 inch nut?) to 7/8 X 10 inch long D9 Cat Headbolts and even in the case with a 7/8 X 10 inch long head bolt, it has worked every time without damage to the internal threads or surrounding metals. *NOTE. Although physically possible, don't attempt to use a stick (rod) welder as you WILL almost certainly cause a stray arch/flash THAT WILL forever damage the cast iron and change/compromise the cast/grain structure of the surrounding block/metal. Don't attempt this with a torch either as you will be concentrating the heat far more on the surrounding metal of the block and not on the stud. Use a Mig only. *NOTE. One of the reasons we do not use a zinc or cadmium plated nut is that it is far harder to properly weld/adhere molten metal to coated nuts (read weld) until the zinc/cadmium plating has burned off thus releasing toxic (and in the case of cadmium, deadly) fumes. NEVER ATTEMPT TO WELD CADMIUM.
Exactly!!! I can only add that a TIG will work as well. I have built up the broken stud with weld prior to adding the nut with good results as well. Cosmo
I think if you re-read the post above, that is how "all" bolts break off. Put the nut where the bolt head should be and weld into the centre of the nut. That's how it reads to me anyway.
What he said I have done some 8-32 screws at work. I have been told you can to the same thing with a broken tap but I never had any luck
I made this quickie drawing to show a friend how to do this when he broke a couple of exhaust bolts...it worked for him on the first try...same as the explanation above. Also, after the nut cools, a few solid dead center hits with a punch & hammer will help shock the threads loose.
This 1/4x20 bolt was snapped off below the surface. I used a mig welder to build it up above the surface. Then welded a 1/2" nut to it Then backed it out. A tap cleaned everything up. It looks worse than it is. It cleaned up nice. A timing cover bolt should be easy. The welding heat usually breaks the bond between the bolt and the block so that it is no longer stuck when you finally turn the wrench and it backs right out
I like that idea of a nut, I usually use a s**** bolt. this is how I saved a set of model a door hinges After chasing the threads with a tap they look and work great.
I had the same bolts break on my nailhead.Mine were due to electrolysis .Some of the bolts rusted so bad the split the timing cover where they go through. I had to break the timing cover to get it off. The bolts came right out of the block after getting past the cover. Welding would not have worked on mine ,it was too far gone. There is a place that makes new timing covers for nailheads. This is fairly common with these motors.
I know it may sound funny, but whenever I get a busted bolt, no matter how deep or flush, I use a little trick that one of my journeymen taught me as a Tool & Die Apprentice many years ago. It usually doesn't work, but it's paid off and saved me tons of work when it has. Simply take a No.2 pencil, apply the eraser end to the broken bolt while applying pressure and try to back it out. If there isn't too much rust, warpage, gaulding, etc., it just may come out. I also like a good set of left handed drills or a small carbide burr with a dremel to make a slot to use a flathead screwdriver to back it out if it is a larger bolt. Otherwise, I go into a full drill out/extractor direction. There are just so many ways to do the same job. Just be patient to minimize any damage.
weld washer to bolt, weld nut to washer, remove while hot and presto. I have a bunch of em I saved,, "you'll never get that out without drilling" oh yeah look at this LOL
I broke off a stainless bolt into my aluminum head flush. Took 3 hours to get a weld to take/penetrate enough to get it out. I hate broken bolts.
so is the timing chain cover still on? i have removed a timing chain cover bolt just by pushing on what was left with my thumb, i dont know how it got snaped off but it wasent stuck and just turned out, so if you can weld to the bolt my trick is to use a piece of 16ga about 3/4" wide and 6" long, drill a hole at one end one size smaller then the bolt, i like it better then using a nut as i dont have to weld down a hole and the extra material gives me a handle.
I also like to start with a washer, a nice fat one and usually the next larger size than the bolt. On a small nut it is difficult to get the stick/wire inside and get things attached. .
If you can get to it, I have heated up the broken bolt and then melted candle wax onto it. Come out the next day and spin it out with a left hand drill. Why it works I don't know.
Wicked, if you have a Oxy/Acet set and a steady hand, a steel bolt in a cast iron block can be blown out WITHOUT any harm to the block with a small cutting tip and attachment, get it cherry hot and blast it on out. Yes, it works very well. BDM
Heat,welded nutz, and wax use them all the time, Bee's wax I mentioned in another form is said to be better, why I can't say, but I have done the pepsi challenge bzzzz, any who, I use to work at an engine shop, and another kick *** way to get broke **** out is with key stock, like you used on your go-kart mini bike, hardware stores sell it in lengths, center punch, drill, and drive the key stock in, back out, This saved my *** on a broken head bolt on the eng. w/the head still on!... Good Luck
i like to use the tang of a file to drive into a hole drilled into the broken bolt like an easy out but softer i have used this many times sometimes i grind the tang alittle to get a sharper edge to bite in better but the mig welder with the nut seems to work the best for me
WINNER!!! You don't even need a steady hand or a small tip. By the time it would take me to find the right size nut I would have blown out ten busted studs or broken bolts. After many years of using this technique I wouldn't even bother walking to the odds and sods box.
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