I remember most of the wheels on Jr. stockers back in the 60's were just OEM painted steel wheels. I guess we were not rich enough to purchase custom mag type wheels.
I believe that, in the very early days (1963-65?) that "mag" or lighter-than-stock wheels were not permitted on Stockers. We ran chromed stock wheels when we could afford them. Several of the 1964 Thunderbolts around here ran the Rader aftermarket front wheel and the factory Hemi cars in 1964 had five-spoke front "mags" but I think they were truly magnesium and the aluminum wheels with the same design came a bit later. The first really popular after-market wheels to appear on Stockers in this part of the world were Cragar five-spokes and they definitely weren't "lighter-than-stock." They were a hot item for a while but when things really began to get serious in the late 60s, the most popular design was the lightest thing that was available. That was when I remember that Fenton "dish" wheels were frequently seen. I never cared for the appearance of that wheel but it was certainly lighter than stock. c
Chuck, I'm not sure which fenton model you are calling a "Fenton dish" wheel? Are one of these below an example? As far as custom wheels on Jr's... I'm building my car to suit me, which the later 60's - early 70's era Look back through this past 407 pages and you'll see more than a few examples of Jr.Stockers with custom 'mag' wheels. Larry
The ET 5's were my original choice, but they don't offer a wheel in the sizes I want with a correlating, correct back spacing that my wagon requires. Larry
I think they also had a 325hp versio of the Ram Rod 350 that was good in F and G stock. Guy in Atlanta named Gene Evans had a black one and when he ran it, which wasn't all that often, it flew! He was hooked up with Dale Smith at Oldsmobile and got the right "stuff" for it, too!
Maybe this one? This is a pic of my Penneys brand A F/X "dish" steel wheels. They actually look pretty good on this 1970 1/2 Ford Falcon! Anyone have any info on it! -Joe
The ones on Neja's car are the ones I was referencing. As racers became more affluent and the industry became more sophisticated, trick wheels became more common and more affordable. The Hurst custom wheels and Motor Fly wheels were there for those who could afford them. Many of the early choices were as heavy as or heavier than stock wheels. The Fentons were a real step in the direction of reducing unsprung weight as indicated by the fact that they were on Tom and Tim's cars. Those guys were very intuitive. Just about the time that people caught on to the weight advantage of the Fenton wheels, the Cragar Super Tricks appeared but they showed up after the demise of Stock.
Caslers... weren't those recaps? Any of you gents visit or remember these speed shops in the Casler ad? The only one I recognize is Jegs. Notice the catalog price difference! These pics are from the same magazine about 20 pgs. apart... I bet some suckers paid a buck for it! -Joe
Caslers were recaps. I remember going to Bell Auto Parts although I lived much closer to Newhouse Automotive on Beverly Blvd. in East L.A. c
Check out the era before around 1964. Yes some had custom wheels and mag type wheels but the majority did not until later on. There was a time the rule book forbid aftermarket mag wheels early on. Maybe Travis has an old rule book that shows the exact date? The 63 ad 64 S/S cars could not use custom wheels unless they were steel and as heavy as the OEM wheel such as chrome.....just the F/X cars. The Monster Mash 55 Chebbie, Jere Stahl's 56 wagon and 57 FI sedan, even Stahls 66 plymouth A/S and Grumpys A/S Nova wore OEM steel wheels, and Stricklers Old Reliable 409's and Z-11 used steel wheels although the 63 Z-11 did have a coustom front wheel on during eliminations at Indy of 63 because he was running A/FX plus many more. For a time custom mag wheels were only allowed in F/X classes. It has to do with the evolution of Jr. stock and the monkey see monkey do syndrom of that time.
Would this explain why so many pictures I've seen of Super Stock or Junior Stock cars... many of them ran the "Mix & Match" wheel combos? It seems not many cars had matching wheels at all four corners... at least in terms of color, size diameter, design, or otherwise. -Joe
OK, OK, I GET IT! The older Jr.s ran 'steel' wheels, the later one's ran 'mags'' Man you've always got this hateful fuck'n tone, like you're the only one that was around back then. "Happy Thanksgiving" to You All. Larry (btw - I just priced out the Radirs... Joe is correct, they are waaaay too pricey for what they are. I'll pass!).
I can still remember the first set of mags I saw on a street car. This was in the Fall of 1964 one Saturday night at the Tastee Freeze when a local guy whom I did not know rolled in with a '62 Belvedere, 413, fender well headers and American mags. That was a badass car in this little town. There was also a guy whose dad was the sales manager at the Plymouth dealership who got a set of Cragar SS wheels as a Christmas gift for his '65 Sport Fury. This reminds me of a bitter argument between Charlie Hampp and his Mom when he asked for a set of Mickey Thopmson's for his '64 Falcon Sprint. When he finally pinned his Mom down about her objections she said "I can't understand why you want to spend all that money for wheels and cover them up with hub caps!"
Here's a current example of a Nostalgic '63 Plymouth with a Torq Thrust type 5 spoke... Looks good to me!! Larry
In Stock classes, the first mention of any wheels other than stock came in 1964 as printed in the 1964 NHRA rulebook. "WHEELS: Wheels other than stock may be used if they are stronger and heavier in weight than original equipment."
From old pictures I've seen, those were very popular. Since the oriiginals are all rusted, It's a wonder no one has reproduced these. It would be very easy to stamp that center section and weld it to a common steel hoop.
Hey Larry, It does get frustrating as hell looking for the right wheels. You think you've found the perfect set or pair, and then they don't make them in the correct sizes, offsets, etc. I personally think many of todays "big" wheel companies are a few years behind as far as current classic car 'trends' are concerned. ie. I thought about getting a pair of these Cragars. They look awesome and are simlilar to the old Fentons. The narrowest width wheel is a 15 x 7? Who the heck runs 15x7 wheels on the front of their classic car anymore?... that would want this style wheel anyway. -Joe
Yes, it is frustrating when dealing with the wheel manufacturers. I realize they can't make a wheel for every application ever made, but you wouldn't think it would be much of an issue for any of the more common fitments... Now add in the poor economy, and they don't want to produce anything that just sits on the shelf. They want all manufactured product to be a "sold order", so it's hurry-up-and-wait for order numbers to increase before a run and delivery. **I did contact Cragar (by phone & by e-mail) right after the first of the year about obtaining this wheel in 15x4" or 15x5" version, and never got any response. (They look like the old Fenton Hawks right!!). I would have considered going with either these in the front and then gone with their 15x7 (4"bs) version on the rear. This ad is vintage '69 - '70 Larry
Yep, my thoughts exactly! You'd think if they reissue a popular vintage design wheel, they would bring back the popular vintage sizes too. -Joe
I don't think the rules changed much if at all in a 5 year span. Attached is from a NHRA 1969 rule book. Courtesy of Freddie and Colesy. -Joe
what happen to the 3 or 4 pictures of the 1969 fairlane conv.? i think it belongs to Michael Iacono thanks JAKE
Wheels, wheels, and more wheels... Just added these wheels to my hoard... Early (1966) Keystone "Kustomags"... 14x6 Ford versions. And they do look completely awesome on the Olds! Do you remember what size they were... I would have to guess 15x4's? Anyone else run the early "Kustomags"? -Joe
Man-O-Man Joe, have you got the stuff! Is there that much left over speed equipt. in the Milwaukee area? The Olds in the photo... I'm guessing those are a 6" wide wheels also, because they have such a deep dish to the outside.... the 4" & 5" inch wheels are much more shallow on the outside. Larry
This really hit home to me. In 71 Norm and I took the Chevelle wagon to Indy and we ran that car with no money at all and we were about the only car there with white painted wheels. So Motor Wheel approached us and offered us a set of the original Motor Wheel for free but we had to run them on the car that week end. First off those wheels were heavy compared to our 15x5 steel wheels from a 55 Chevy and the only size they had were (2)15x5 and (2)15x8. Well you should have seen the look on their faces when Norm told them to put the 5" rim on the rear and the 8" rims on the front. Norm knew those 8" rims on the back would never work with 7" slicks. The only good thing to come out of this was we did get a free set of of both magnesium Flies and Fleas in the correct size. And today I've got $2000 tied up in as set of Weld wheels for my Corvette and in 71 we had $1700 in the entire race car.
Auto parts are my specialty I guess you could say... I sell new automotive parts to make a living and collect/restore vintage auto parts as a hobby. Oh yeah, and spend way too much time & money on Ebay! -Joe
Your correct about Ramrod being 325HP. Although the "Ramrod" designation was ONLY for the 68 W--31 car. After 68 they were just known as W-31's. The discussion on this thread was about the Rallye 350 Yellow "Tweety-bird" models (1970 only). Those NEVER came from factory with W-31 option (325HP). They only came with the lower 310HP motor. Its been a well-hashed argument in the Oldsmobile forums for years. I'm sure your friends car in Atlanta did run good if he was fortunate enough to get some of Dale Smith's :goodies" for his car. Dale was the REAL "DR. OLDSMOBILE" -RIP Dale!!!!
The Jalopy Journal
