Early Olds Tech - techomatic primer?

I came accross an Offy 6x2 w/ some velocity stacks I had to have. Nevermind that I have no car or engine for it - which leads me to:

What are the 303, 324, 371, 394 engines capable of? Shortcomings?

What I really need to know is which engine do I need/want to hold up my intake? 303/324 or 371/394, or any????

Secondly, I am under the impression that Olds motors were the hot setup that replaced the flathead in compe***ion, and due to the variety of aftermarket intakes, pretty widespread, yet at present I can find NO ONE that provides anything other than "custom" stock replacement parts for antique restorers. Please tell me I am wrong...

I have searched and searched, and found nothing except Bleed's and others' parts I'm way envious of. It could always be that I **** at searching, but I have some questions I'm sure someone here knows the answers to & who knows, maybe it will be good enough to save...

 

well,if you wanna build a little roadster or coupe a 303 will be just fine,but on heavier cars like my brother's "51 Hudson it could use a little more torque.my '54 Olds has a 324 and it scoots along just fine.both have the dual-range hydra-matic transmission,which is the most commonly found.read about them here http://www.rodnkustom.com/rocketeers/hydramatic/index.html stick trans stuff is rare and expensive,although http://www.nwspeedequipment.com is about to start making those parts.buy new engine parts from Egge if you want,but there's still plenty of NOS available at www.kanter.com and Terrill Machine 254-893-2610 in Texas,no website.try to dig up some old hamb threads on this,look for Rocketeers,Blownolds,DON_WOW,and me of course though we all tend to show up at the same time.send me a PM and i can send you some scans i have-george

 

i have a 64 olds wagon with a 394.i like it.i hate the ****** though.that can be changed out though.there is a guy that does a conversion to slim jim trannies,i cant find the link.

http://www.oldsclub.org/AACAlinks.htm you can find good info there

http://www.realoldspower.com good info there also

you can usually find some neat stuff on ebay.also http://www.mondellotwister.com can help you out.

 

I've had a few, no real early stuff, just one '56 324 and too many 394s to remember.

the 324 was stock in a stock 88 and was a great runner, strong, well behaved and easy to maintain.

two of the 394s were stock in 98s, same story, good strong runners.

then I had a few hopped up setups, one that I had done "hot street" that I built my first hot rod around, not cheap and just a little tempermental.

like George says, they do just fine in the right car, with the right setup.
but they are heavy, expensive to build (relative term I know), and if you want to go fast plan on spending some serious coin, first to build it and then every time something breaks.

I'm surprised this doesn't come up more often, with all the early Olds motors on the HAMB people must think the old stuff is everywhere.

Paul

 

no ****.the hought crossed my mind many times to get rid of my 394,because its too expensive and i cant find the parts i really want.but i will not give into convenience!

 

Count me in on that request. . I'm building a '56 324 right now.

I am shooting for the unofficial ***le AMBE- "America's Most Beutiful Engine". . . I think the ***le is currently held by Jimmy White with Rocket Motor in his roadster.

I am figuring to leave the bottom end stock but I'd like to know what the basic recomended upgrades are on the top end. . . good street cam specs. . . potential for swapping rockers. . . valve upgrades. . . etc. to fix any weak points the motor may have and let it breath as well as it can.

Anyone have some extra Hust engine mounts laying around?

 

i already won that if you guys are serious i'll help you out,but i don't wanna type up 3 pages of stuff just so you don't have to use the "search" function-george

 

I just can't believe that as many of these motors there once were built semi-race condition (as evidenced by all the wild -used- intakes & valve covers out there) that NO ONE makes any speed parts for them anymore!

I mean - I can find Y block, nailhead, and even early caddy stuff. They are STILL coming out with stuff for the "late" Olds motors they quit building in '76 (bigblocks), but the true "rocket" motors, the ones with the song about them (the car anyways), and the first(?) of the overheads? - NOTHING. I have looked everywhere I can think of and the best I found so far was on the Olds FAQ which basically stated, "Some of the stuff might interchange between the 303/324 and 371/394, but we really don't know." and gave some dimensions.

BTW - I will be putting it in some sort of A bone rod - probably Tudor. Heavy is relative - I cut my teeth on later BB Olds cast iron monsters in my teens - I'm 29 now.

Anyway, lets keep this up. I am a willing student of all you early Olds experts out there...

To keep the ball rolling -

What kind of power will they make on pump gas? 1hp/cube?
ARE the 303/324 and 371/394 log style intakes and heads interchangeable?
What are the differences between the two/four?

I'm looking for anything here. Don't ***ume I already know anything about these particular engines.

 

Please do type. PULEEEZE!

I have looked for stuff on & off for at least a couple months on here & been pretty unsuccessful.

I do (think) I know the 303/324 were early 50's (& 49 maybe?), and the 371/394 was later & made thru '64. Some people say intakes will interchange some say they won't. Heard some (don't know which ones) have head cracking problems. I ***ume the valve covers all interchange, but don't know that either. Don't know a THING about cams for these (what works and where to get one if that's even possible).

 

Serious?. . . I am building my own intake and casting my own valley cover. . . The AMBE ***le will be mine, mine, mine!, Well, if I dion't get sidetracked. . .

Anyway, George, I have probably read all of your old posts (and thanks by the way) also serched 324, olds, rocket, and 303 and read all of those. But a new thread concentrating on these motors is welcome and might wrap up some of those old threads that were left inconclusive.

As to the intake fit question - it is my understanding that the width changes due to deck height with the 371's so 303 &324 intakes are interchangeable but not 371 394 . . . unless its one of those 6x2 intakes with the separate logs on each side.

 

bluethndr, what are the dimensions of the ports on the log intake you have? They made those in more than one port size (though I imagine perhaps they could be opened up??????????????). At any rate, the port size will be a determining factor as to what heads the intake will be compatible with. And then, your choice of heads will be a determining factor as to what blocks you can use (valve to cylinder wall clearance issues).

 

there's some damn good advice there,find out what you got first,then find a suitable core engine.i'll work on a write-up (count on AT LEAST 3 pages )later tonight,and hopefully some of the other guys will chime in with the stuff i don't know...

 

Each port is 2 1/8" tall and 1 1/4" wide. 2 11/16" from outside of port to outside of adjacent port, and 12.0" (maybe 11 and 31/32) from outside of 1st port to outside of last port. I'm in the process of rebuilding the 94's I got on it. Adding chokes to the two centers, and ditching the power valves on the outboards - again just based on what little I've heard and lots of speculation...

How do the early Olds motors compare to the early SBCs (283/327?) I'm talking durability and power here? I realize there are pretty much no similarities - except that SBC guys TRYING to be cool can fit Olds' covers on top of theirs...

Anyone ever try adapting valvetrain parts (roller rockers, valves) from other makes??

 

The current holder of the AMBE ***le

 

Olds should be more durable than early SBC. Power comparison between the early 283/327's depends on what years, CID's, and heads we are talking about. Yes, other parts have been adapted. Some have adapted SBC valves in a 324 head, but I don't know the details. I personally would prefer to order a custom valve that is correct for the application. The roller rockers that are readily available from Rocker Arm Spe******ts for the 303/324 start out as Mopar arms (keep forgetting if SB or BB). I understand that the arms are ordered from Crane without the shaft hole cut, and then the Olds shaft hole is bored into them in the proper location. Gene Adams also did a set, they are on Ken Bates Jr's rail that runs NEII in the 8's in the 1/4 with a stroked 324. You can search for those names via Google and find out more about that. But don't think that a 303 is going to turn those kinds of times... well, I guess they could with a little CH3O2, LOL

 

I guess mine is a close second.try your local olds club thats were i got some of my parts.Good luck.

 

Does anyone know what engine(s) my manifold will fit?

What about heads? Any "good" castings like SBC camel humps, Olds "C" heads, etc, or is a 324 head a 324 head - )or 303/371/394?

 

I bought a 303 bored to 311 from an oldtimer, and he had used 348 Chevy valves in it. Don't remember if there was a lot of work involved, but I don't think so. He built the motor in '59 for his B/Gas model A, and pulled it in 1962 in favor of a 327.


Mutt

 

Sorry Y****, Priase the lowered is correct, Jimmy had to keep handing me the drool towel at Rat Fink's. I also have one of those Edmunds manifolds, so it's a big inspiration.

BTW, Jimmy at Circle City hot rods is going to make some header flanges for the Rockets soon. Maybe if a bunch of us order them we'll do it soon.

cp

 

Great post with a lot of info. Wouldn't mind seeing more pics of Olds motors. I've done my share of searching and found Egges and Kanter for some of the common parts, but have yet to come up with anywhere for cams except the occ***ional E-Bay listings. Anyone else have some luck? I have a 55 324 and a spare 56 324.

 

Is there anyone in Michigan or Northern IN that has any motors for examination? Anyone that can bring a head to the autorama in Detroit?

This is cool - I'm already learning a bunch!

 

just keepin a good thread alive. . .

 

So far I am gathering that the drag engine of yore is the 324 - hey that rhymes...

Seems like no one used the 371/394 - is that 'cause they were eclipsed by the chemi motors or 'cause they ****ed?

 

must...not ..let..rocket...posts ...die

 

must be one page one

 

I want that pic for my PC wallpaper...

 

[Hay Man, Ive got a spair 56 324 and Im rite here in WI. I had called Bob Bleed last year and he said He wanted it, but sence then He found the motherload and I havnt heard from Him. I also have a manual belhousing and flywheel. and two 56 Jetaway ******s. Let me ask Bob one more time to be fair and then Id'e be willing to sell them to you.
Chuck

 

I'm down. Just lemme know!

Hey Yorgatron - you still working on that big writeup?

 

Wrong. The 324's were the hot rod engine of yore, in hot rods.

The 371-394 were very popular in g***er racing from '61-4. They weren't completely eclipsed by the Chev's and hemi's until '65. Around '65 you don't see much mention of the early Olds engine anymore in racing. But from '61-4 the 371's and 394's were heavily used. There were even a few fuelers using them, not just g***ers. 2/3 of these engines were supercharged.

 

What CIDs
These engines were produced between 1949 to 1964 in 303, 324, 371, 394 CID. On 1959-1963 engines, the 371 has gold valve covers, and the 394 has green valve covers.

CID Years Bore Stroke Series Color
303 '49 - '53 3.750 3.4375
324 '54 - '56 3.875 3.4375 7, 8, 9
371 '57 - '58 4.000 3.6875 7, 8, 9
371 '59 - '60 4.000 3.6875 7 Gold
371 '61 - '63 4.000 3.6875
394 '59 - '60 4.125 3.6875 8, 9 Green
394 '61 - '63 4.125 3.6875 2, 5, 8 Hi-comp Red; Lo-comp Green
394 '64 4.125 3.6875 4


Comp. Horse-
Year Series CID Ratio power Torque Induction
1949 88 303 7.5-1 135@3600 253@1800 2 bbl
1950 88 303 7.5-1 135@3600 253@1800 2 bbl
1951 88 303 7.5-1 135@3600 253@1800 2 bbl
1952 88 303 7.5-1 160@3600 265@2000 4 bbl
Super 88 303 7.5-1 160@3600 265@2000 4 bbl
1953 88 303 8.0-1 165@3600 275@2200 4 bbl
1954 88 324 8.25-1 170@4000 295@2000 4 bbl
Super 88 324 8.25-1 185@4000 300@2000 4 bbl
1955 88 324 8.5-1 185@4000 320@2000 4 bbl
Super 88/98 324 8.5-1 202@4000 332@2400 4 bbl
1956 88 324 9.25-1 230@4400 340@2400 4 bbl
Super 88/98 324 9.25-1 240@4400 350@2800 4 bbl
1957 All 371 9.25-1 277@4400 400@2800 4 bbl
Tri-power 371 9.25-1 312@4600 415@2800 3 2bbls
1958 All 371 10.0-1 265@4400 390@2400 2 bbl
All 371 10.0-1 305@4600 410@2800 4 bbl
Tri-power 371 10.0-1 312@4600 415@2800 3 2bbls
1959 88 371 9.75-1 270@4600 390@2400 4 bbl
Super 88/98 394 9.75-1 315@4600 435@2800 4 bbl
1960 88 371 8.75-1 240@4600 375@2400 4 bbl
Super 88/98 394 9.75-1 315@4600 435@2800 4 bbl
1961 88 394 8.75-1 250@4200 405@2400 4 bbl
Super 88/98 394 10.0-1 325@4600 435@2800 4 bbl
F-85 215 8.75-1 155@4800 210@3200 2 bbl
F-85 215 10.25-1 185@4800 230@3200 4 bbl
1962 D88 394 10.25-1 280@4200 430@2400 4 bbl
Super 88/98 394 10.25-1 330@4600 440@2800 4 bbl
Super 88/98 394 10.5-1 345@4800 440@3200 4 bbl
F-85 215 8.75-1 155@4800 210@3200 2 bbl
F-85 215 10.25-1 185@4800 230@3200 4 bbl
F-85 215 10.25-1 215@4600 300@3200 Turbo(1bbl)
1963 D88/S88/98 Identical to 1962
F-85 Identical to 1962
1964 Jetstar I 394 10.5-1 345@4800 440@3200 4 bbl
Dynamic 88 394 10.25-1 280@4400 430@2400 see Note 1
Starfire 394 10.5-1 345@4800 440@3200 4 bbl
S88/98 394 10.25-1 330@4600 440@2800 4 bbl

Note 1: The Dynamic 88 came standard with a 2-bbl carb. The Starfire engine was standard on the 98 Custom-Sports Coupe (the "top of the line" 98). It was available as an option all the other 98s and the Super 88. The 330 HP S88/98 version was an option on the Dynamic 88.

[ Thanks to Scott Clark, Dan Gulino, Dave Paulison, Art Fuller for this information ]

Sorry for the format...

I have also heard that the '56 (324) heads are better than other year (324) heads. Not sure about interchange yet...

The Olds FAQ has a little more info on these:

http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/ofeng.htm#Engines 1949 - 1964