220V wiring help..dryer outlet aint gonna work

sure it is! thats if someone already ran new conduit, and pulled new wire for you and made it all up. then yea 15 minutes fast!

 

Yeah, well so does a Zinsco, but I wouldn't install one of those either.

With the current economy, there are plenty of electricians out there who will do the work for a fair price. I turned down a side job for a lady (service change) because the electrician in a van could do it for less than me...

The thing with electricity is that you can get away with some stuff sometimes, some folks get away with it forever. Other folks, they end up with their stuff burned up and no insurance check because the work they did for themselves was faulty. Just because something might "work" doesn't mean it meets applicable code either, which will get you in the same boat with your insurance.

...and yes, I am an electrician. I've seen people do some scary, stupid stuff.

 

Licensed electrician here,the ampacity of the feed wire to the stick welder ,I ***ume it's an arc welder,must match the I1 rating on the welder,50 amps in this case.The overcurrent protection ,breaker or fuses can be as high as 200 percent of the I1 rating .Otherwords ,#6 wire and a 50 amp dedicated welder outlet.A 50 amp welder outlet is a different style than a 50 amp range outlet.Usually a 50 amp breaker will be ok.
For using the 30 amp dryer circuit.....The wiring won't fry if protected by a 30 amp overcurrent device.I don't recomend or condone it,just saying.........

 

Im also a licensed electrician , please dont mickey mouse it, bite the bullet and hire a licensed electrician

 

i love it when i show up to a job and the tell me,yea my handyman did it! and all i can do is be in amazement that it didnt catch fire!!!!
HIRE AN ELECTRICIAN!!!!

 

I'm lucky in that both of my brothers are journeymen electricians and one is a contractor.

One of them had me do the grunt work that was needed to be done. In my case it was dig a trench out to the garage and bury inch and a half conduit to run the wires through. He pulled the wires and hooked them to the panel and the plug in the garage.

Does your panel have a couple of empty spaces to put a set of breakers?
How hard is it to go from the panel to the garage?
It shouldn't be too hard to do nor all that expensive.

That said I used my range plug to hook the welder up for several years and even built my sailboat trailer that way but I missed a couple of hot meals because of it.

One thing that you might thing about depending on where the panel is. have the electrician put the plug right close to the panel and then use an SO cord (heavy industrial extension cord) to run to the welder. That is if you don't want to pay to have the circuit run all the way to the garage.

 

stove circuts are typically 30 amp
dryer circuits are typically 40 amp - 8/3 wire
welder - 50 amp - 6/3 wire (some small 220v migs can get by on 40 amp)
Even if you got your dryer outlet to work your undersized on both breaker and wire size.

Run a dedicated line. make sure your house if 200 amp service. running a new circuit isnt too difficult, I dont like messing with existing wiring, but new circuits you know what everything is and where its going.
6/3 "romex" is large and difficult to work with, I suggest conduit and 4 individual wires, yes you need 4. also a good idea to protect that large circuit completely.

 

6-3 Romex has stranded wires and is quite easy to work with since it's round cable.A conduit system is not easy for some one without previous experience.4 wires???? How many conductors for a 240 volt single phase welder? I have wired many,and just wired one today,3 wires,two hots and a ground.There might be a few with a neutral,but I haven't seen one.3 phase would have 4 wires.

 

i told him already! but i dont know if he cared

 

yep. Run a new breaker to your garage from your main box. Did mine, and then had a electric expert come out to verify. All good.

Dual pole 30a - 2 live 110 cables, 1 ground, 1 neutral wire = 4. 50amp in garage.

 

Welder has three wires. One from each side of the panel and a centre terminal we call ground. panel is wired from left to right 110 Vs -0 -110Vs.
Dryer is wired with four. THe two of the outsides (110Vs and a ground and neutral extra.
I hesitate to say more as I worry you are not used to or familiar working with electricity and I do not want to see you get hurt. You need to ask an electrician. IE "can you install a dryer plug on my welder" or buy this
http://www.kmstools.com/century-wire-and-cable-dryer-plug-to-welder-plug-adapter-cord-10273

 

Dryers and ranges had 3 wires,two hots and a neutral and shared ground wire.About 6 years ago the code was changed for new installations only,separate ground and neutral,so 4 wires total.
Yes, single phase 240 volt weldors have 3 wires.As mentioned there may be fancy *** 240 volt multi purpose welders with a 4 wire cord other than 3 phase.
I normally don't do residential wiring,but home owner electric work can be very poor....Auto repair shops ,unless they are brand new,generally are wired with a total lack of safety,just fires waiting to happen.And we all know how bad shop fires are.

 

All good points... this is why MY house and garage were done by a real electrician and okayed by the underwriters. So, please, no one listen to me giving out technical electrical advice!

My welding outlet is on a dedicated 50 AMP circuit and has a separate receptacle with a lock out on it. The mill runs on another 30 AMP circuit and has a phase converter too. I can weld and run the mill at the same time.. an impossibility when I work alone, lol.

Bob

 

Very very little hot rod welding is done with a 225 amp setting. I am rarely over 90 myself so 30amp in the supply line should handle that easily. Welder drops voltage which increases amps at the secondary or stick end. Amps go up voltage must come down for the same amount 0f power (Watts) Watts is the constant. Volts times Amps = Watts. 1amp X 120 volts =120 watts but so does 6 amps X 20 volts =120 watts. ) I still use a 30 amp breaker here. Been here since 1983. It seems to me TSC or some normal guy store we all have access to sells these 4 to 3 adapters. It might even be Wahlmart in the RV section. I have seen them somewhere recently. We use often in our shops for quick heat milk house or industrial 220 heaters. When we buy them at Home Depot ($78)we always buy a welder plug and change them over to use in the shop welder 3 prong plug. They also come with a 4 pronger like a dryer so it is the same deal backwards. In fact some of the welder plug kits come for 3 or 4 prong set up. This is a straight forward deal. I dont understand how folks make it so complicated.

Don

 

Read post 16 again. If you have a fire and the new circuit you installed does not meet code insurance will not pay. They are looking for these things. My advice is:
a. Hire a licensed electrical contractor to install a new circuit. Requires permit and inspection.
b. Do it yourself with help from a licensed electrician. Do it under a homeowners permit and have it inspected. If it doesn't meet requirements it won't p***. Red tag should note which code violation needs correction. Some inspectors may even give you a little advice. When new circuit p***es you are all legal and good to go..
c. As far as upgrading your dryer circuit to 50a, that would be O.K. However, you would have to replace every component in that circuit- wire, breaker, outlet. Overcurrent protection is there to protect the circuit. It's O.K. to connect to an oversize circuit, not O.K. to connect to an undersize circuit.
Fire ain't funny. Be safe, not sorry. Pay the $$$, worry less, play in the shop more. BTW, I am also an electrician.

 

Well, there you have it, all the "real" electricians in this thread agree: you can do it yourself, but it's not only unwise, but potentially dangerous to do so. Wire sizing is misleading, box fill, conduit fill, percentages of derating for conduit fill, all that stuff is not nearly as clear as you think. Find one rule in that book (the NEC) and I'll show you TWO that appear to contradict it.

You wanna do your own work? Fine, but at least find a real, honest to goodness electrician to verify what you want to accomplish, one that's willing to come back when you're done and check to see if it's done right.

Pulling permits is a h***le, but a small one compared to finding out that you not only lose everything because your insurance refuses to pay, but the lawsuits that start to stack up afterwards, from your mortgage holder, all the way down to the neighbor across the street who got smoke inhalation... and remember, YOU WON'T HAVE INSURANCE!

Hiring an electrician is cheap compared to the possible alternatives.

 

You're modifying a 4 prong equipped appliance, and making it a 3 prong appliance? Are you grounding the steel parts to the neutral? You know that when you change the cord DESIGN on an appliance you are negating the UL approval listing... yet another wonderful little loop for the insurance companies to slip through, leaving yet another penny pincher holding the bag. The same goes with these adapters you're talking about, they're not going to ground the metal parts if you change the machine from a 4 prong to a 3 prong.

Welders that are convertible usually have a green wire hanging down inside that you attach to the ground terminal if using 3 wire, that's the CH***IS GROUND. If the ch***is is not grounded, you stand the chance of creating an open circuit between the ch***is and whatever might take the power to ground, effectively byp***ing the breakers means of tripping. In english: you die and **** burns. Insurance companies love this kind of stuff, they train their inspectors rigorously to search out these little "inconsistencies".

So yeah, it is kind of a big deal.

 

That's why I'm hiring someody!

Too much could go wrong, and I dont have enough of a mental grasp of electricity to mess with it.

This thread, and all the great info, should be of some help to other HAMBers in the future.

I'll let you guys see what I came up with...after I save up some $$$.

Thanks again for all the great info!

 

Sometimes you can save a little money by doing the grunt work. Have an electrician come out to access it. Digging trenches and running conduit/wires can be done by most anyone. Have them handle permits and come back for final hook-up. Just a thought.

 

after a week a rigorous searching i found the answer ,,from an electrical stand point i got 240 mig welder 24 amps ,,input the dryer is probably 220 not good enough the stoves are 240 check the pannel it says witch breakers power what device and amps you got to match the amps ,,with the breaker and then find the plug ,,the power lines coming in off the house each carry 120 so all together 240 ,,,after the main you could use a breaker and do hot legs or to a sub pannel or you may find 2 empty spots and TURN THE MAIN OFF off (off) and then instal new breakes with the right amps and run ur cord shorter the better u lose elestricity on distance after 75 feet raise a guage and wires are rated to match the amps 10 guauge 8 gauge and 50 amps 6 guage they sell the outlets at home depot i got one rated 50 amps so got the wire to match but the breaker is rated at 30 amps ,,easy job to do ,,working on back feeding the generator next remeber there are 2 buses in the panel 120 each a 240 is just 2 breakers hooked up with 2 hots 120 plus 120 equals 240 ,,if you need run the work then have the electrician sign off and just hook it in to be up to code