Art & Inspiration Kirkham Motorsports University Making a Bronze Coupe Fender

wow......speechless.

 

I've always been amazed with the quality of the work you guys do . It's simply stellar ! This is no different . Keep it up & thanks for sharing .

 

We make our superplastic dies from cast iron. You can also make them from mild steel, but they tend to spall with all the heat cycles. Mild steel is very cheap and easy to get a hold of. Cast iron is cheap as well, but it is best to make a casting first of the die and then machine the casting so you don't have to make so many chips. Mild steel is easy on the cutting tools. Cast iron eats cutting tools, as it is quite abrasive.

We try to make our dies from cast iron as they last forever. We cut a casting pattern from styrofoam and then send it to a foundry to be cast. After casting, we grind the die flat and machine the forming surface to get the exact geometry we want. I'll post a video of us making a pattern if you guys want.

We are just now moving into making parts from superplastic forming. We will make most of our Coupe using superplastic forming.

Here is a video of us doing our first tests with superplastic forming.

David

 

Thanks for the kind words. I am happy to share what we do. We hired 4 new people here in the past few weeks to help us catch up with all our orders. With the new help I have been freed up to do some things I have long been wanting to do. Glenn Reynolds of www.instapundit.com and author of Army of Davids, inspired us to start Kirkham Motorsports University to show the world how we make things. We hope our metal forming and machining knowledge may be of interest and use to others. Many people freely gave of their time to us over the years to help us continually make better products. Now, we want to return the many favors we have received from so many kind people.

Yes, we do all of our own machine work in house. We do some outside work as well (some military stuff) but just last week we had to stop that as we are too far behind with car orders.

That said, there are many machine shops that can mill dies all over the US. Sadly, machine shops are dying at an unbelievable rate across our country as manufacturing flees our country. I heard Utah alone lost 1/3 of its machine shops in the past couple years. I am sure there are many shops in other states who would gladly do machine work for you. You should expect to pay $50 to $75/hour for the work. Some shops charge more, we do, but they are specialized shops (as we are). Just remember, many shops that charge $100/hour end up costing less in the end than those who charge $50/hour.

Many of our dies run for 10, 20, or more hours. Some dies run a couple of days (including all night). If you have a 3D model in an .iges format then most any machine shop can make your part. A Solidworks file is undoubtedly the best file for most shops to work from. Just be careful and get lots of recommendations before you turn your part, and money, over to someone. Also, get a firm quote.

David

 

Thanks guys! Happy to share.

David

 

Here is an earlier video we made showing the matching part (lower quarter panel) being made on a stretch press.

David

 

Thanks for sharing the knowledge, Beautiful work!

 

ok so copper, bronze, and aluminum, have ya done any other metals? titanium would be cool.. but can ya even work titanium sheet?

 

Thanks! Happy to share.

David

 

We have done a few steel parts as well. The area under the cowl of the Coupe is steel. We thought the steel formed easier than bronze. Maybe I should make a video of that too.

We have formed titanium as well. It is a really tough material to form. We used hyperplastic forming for the research we did with 6Al-4V titanium. Those weren't car parts, however. They were research into ballistic body armor.

David

 

hmm , reminds me of some talented guys i met at pzl in mielec. especially love the "don't tread on me " flag in the shop! best wishes
alex

 

Beautiful!!! I think I just learned more in ten minutes about metal forming than I've known my whole life. Thanks.

 

Alex??? Is that you?!!!

Remember the part I said about, "Many people freely gave of their time to us over the years to help us continually make better products. Now, we want to return the many favors we have received from so many kind people." You were one of them! Thank you so much for all your help so many years ago. I hope this helps to return the favor.

We have a few "Don't Tread On Me" flags around the shop. I organized the first Tea Party in Utah long ago, before anyone knew anything about them. The distress I saw in Poland made me take a stand. Alas, this thread is about beating on metal...not on political ideals. :lol:

David

 

So glad we could help. Happy to answer any questions.

David

 

Our stretch press is 160 tons. It is around 8 x 12 feet. We can make a huge part on it. We bought it scrapped at a military auction. They had cut it up with a torch. We completely rebuilt it. They are amazing machines.

David

 

Thank you for all the information you are sharing. I've subscribed to your YouTube channel as well. It's great to see someone with all your talent share your knowledge.

 

Thanks so much for subscribing. We will be posting many more videos in the near future. Our next project is to make a "flip-top" nose for one of our customers. We will video the whole project.

David

 

hi david , just wanted to say the pleasure was all mine . aside from the exemplary craftsmanship i witnessed in poland , it taught me a lot about what you can achieve with a great attitude . never have i seen so much commitment to "getting it right " as your operation in mielec . i'm so happy that you are doing so well. the parts and cars you build are truly works of art . and finally , GOD BLESS AMERICA !!

 

Terrific thread. Thank you.

 

Boy I wish I could have worked with you guys instead of KAPS, but it did force me to get allot better career.

 

Alex,

I will always remember you showing us how to sand a car with the sanding marks all going in the same direction with 80 grit sandpaper. That first car you sanded in Poland was so beautiful. It changed how I looked at making our cars. I knew we could do better. Thanks for showing us the way.

That really kicked off our company. You showed us we too could make beautiful things--even in production. The Poles always made nice parts, but getting the bodies beautiful was difficult at first. MiGs don't have to look beautiful at 50,000 feet. Now, we have gone way beyond 80 grit--most of our cars are now polished.

Yes indeed. God bless America!

David

 

Tom and David are without a doubt two of the most honest and talented folks in the car business. I purchased a car from them ,(#495), and cannot believe the level of help and instruction they have offered me. They are the exact opposite of most of the vendors who build something for sale, not for use. I have used them for many fabrication jobs and they are resonable and complete the job in short time...it is a joy to know and work with them.

 

Dusty,

Your build thread is exactly what I am talking about when I said I am inspired by what you guys do. You don't have a garage but that didn't stop you. You don't make excuses; you make dreams. When I started Kirkham Motorsports I started with a tool box (with a few hand tools), a vise (from my dad), an old work bench (that was left in the shop my dad bought), a grinder (my dad's), a torch (my dad's), and a Sears drill press (also my dad's). Like you, we made up for what we lacked with determination.

The pictures of your kids helping out reminded me of when I was young. There were so many kids in our family, I never knew how my mother kept all of us fed and clothed. To make a little bit of extra money, my father would buy old cars, fix them up, and sell them. I remember many bitterly cold nights when my father was stationed at Offutt Air Force Base in Nebraska, sitting in a parka (which my mother made for me), passing wrenches to my father as he crawled under cars. I don’t think he ever made much money selling those cars, but the few hundred dollars it brought in helped my mother to make ends meet.

One winter my father bought an old Ford Bronco and my brothers and I helped him attach a snow plow onto it. (I am not sure how much “help” I was as a 5th or 6th grader, but at least I thought I was helping.) Winters in Nebraska can be bitterly cold with lots of snow. The constantly driving wind would drift the snow in strange places, sometimes covering a road, sometimes covering your door! After my father came home from work on snowy days, I used to ride around with him as his “co-pilot” as he would plow out the church parking lot, then travel to the homes of other members of our church--especially the widows in our church--to plow their driveways. As we jostled along in the Bronco, I would write my name on the frost-covered windshield by melting the frost with my fingers until I couldn’t stand the burn any longer. One night, after staying out much too late with my father on a miserably cold night, we returned home and I asked my mother,

“Mom, why do we have to plow other people’s driveways?”

She answered, “David, service is the rent we pay for the air we breathe on this earth.” I treasure those times I spent with my father. Keep up the good work with your kids. They will never forget it.

David

 

Thanks for your careful answers. I have been trawling though your videos as well. Thanks for making all this available.

 

Thanks! We have enjoyed working with you on the Mormon Meteor and other projects as well.

David

 

Hopefully they can be of some inspiration to help other guys uncover their dusty rides and bolt on a few more parts.

David

 

out of curiousity:

1) thickness of panel pre-forming -- .063?
2) how does the panel compare to steel or aluminum after shaping in terms of rigidity?
3) I assume you will TIG panels together?
4) have you tried wrapping it around an edge flange yet (ie: door or hood edge)

Hopefully your customer gives you the "go ahead" on the project given the test sample -- would be truly unique when finished.

 

The sheet is 0.063" thick when we start. It does not thin very much at all in this process.

In terms of "rigidity" I believe you are referring to Young's modulus, or stiffness. Young's modulus is about 16,000,000 psi for 655 bronze, 30,000,000 psi for steel, and 10,000,000 psi for aluminum. In other words, steel is 3 times stiffer than aluminum. Bronze is about 1/2 as stiff as steel.

That said...be careful!!! Hardness and stiffness does NOT always equate to strength.

Aluminum (the soft body forming alloys we use, like 3003-0) has a yield strength of 6,000 psi and an ultimate tensile of 16,000 psi.

Mild steel has a yield strength of 50,000 psi and an ultimate tensile of about 60,000 psi.

655 Bronze has a yield strength of 55,000 psi and an ultimate tensile of 85,000 psi.

As you can see, the question is more complex than it first may appear. Material science is fascinating.

Yes, we TIG the panels together. Silicon bronze welds very easily.

We have not tried to hem (wrap 180 degrees) an edge yet, though we did form in the window step and the rear hatch recess. I imagine it will not present too much of a problem as elongation in Silicon Bronze is quite high--20%.

The customer is excited about the project. I will be talking to him later in February, after our Annual Open House. As you can imagine, the bronze alone for the project is extremely expensive. Probably over $10,000.

David