EPA Passes 15% Ethanol..Sorta

Well, it looks like the 15% ethanol in gasoline scare is over...for now. Bad news...EPA okays upping the ethanol content in gasoline. Good news...it's optional for Gas Stations. If they want to, they have to put in dedicated tanks/pumps for it...

 

Its all ready been here in Iowa for a few years. Works great in the new cars and trucks. In the old stuff, if you don't retard you timing a bit it will vapor lock on you in hot weather. It's also hard on older fuel pumps it seems to eat them faster. but it is a few cents cheaper, so you'll be able to afford to put a new one on.LOL.

 

Minnesota has been 10% for a couple of decades, T. Pawlenty was trying to push 20% for most of his term. Long term, I think it is a good thing, but the older motors require a few precautions. If you set your engine up with at least 10% in mind, you will be fine. On the plus side, it sure keeps stuff clean and we don't ever have to worry about frozen gas lines any more with all the alcohol in the gas (You Southerners that have never experienced going out to your car at -20 only to find that the fuel lines are frozen solid should consider yourself lucky ).

I have always wanted to build a motor around E85 or E100. 12:1 (or higher) compression sure can be fun. Maybe someday.

 

Yeah, but we ALL know what the gub'mint says is "voluntary" rapidly becomes "mandatory". There is nothing benevolent about the EPA.

 

Ethanol is just another farm subsidy. Compared to gasoline, it costs more to produce, generates more pollution, and is less efficient. Not to mention it has a negative impact on vehicles due to the fact that it's hydroscopic (attracts moisture). And with 40% of our corn crop now going to ethanol, it's causing huge increases in food costs. Even Al Gore now admits ethanol is a mistake. Some idiots point to Brazil as a model, but somehow clearing the rain forest to plant sugar cane to use for fuel doesn't seem like such a good idea.

 

So you would rather send your money to the middle east? What are those HUGE increases in food costs anyway? Pretty stable here in az. I run it and love it. Not the future but I would rather keep the money in our country until we figure it out.

Al Gore is pretty smart though, he invented the internets....

 

No wonder why gas prices are High ....................

 

392 hemi there is no increase in food cost. the profit on a hog is about $7 per head in a good market. profit on a $1,000 fat steer is usually break even. the by product of the alcohol production, "distillers" are fed back to feeder cattle, and daires. corn price at $6 per bushel is a "false market" inflated by commodity tradeing, by people who have never had shit on the bottom of their shoes, or know any thing about 1/2 mile rows or 30" rows many many hogs raised at a loss just for the hog shit, to put back on the land..thank goodness for ethanol! the arabs can stick it!!!

 

Common sense from Farm Country

 

Know all about this and am on it like flies on sh*t!!

Just this past week I got to slip sideways at work so after 10+ years of writing MO Air Pollution Control Law and State Implementation Plan's, I get to do something different.

And I read the Federal Register daily to keep track of what's going on.

pdq67

 

No, I'd rather drill for oil on our own land. But some people would rather import the oil or waste 55 gallons of water and a whole lot of energy to produce a gallon of ethanol. Don't think prices are going up, check where corn prices are these days. Even McD is raising it's prices because its costs are way up. As for Al Gore, when the biggest global warming tree hugger type in the world says it's a bad deal, you gotta be pretty far out there to still be trying to sell this sh*t as a viable alternative.

 

Sorry, but I'm not buying it. You guys got Harkin and his buddies covering your butt, and the rest of us paying the bill. Some day all that's going to end.

 

If it gets too bad I might have to convert to methane.

 

My biggest problem w/ethanol in gasoline it the loss of MPG.

Supposedly we have an ungodly amount of oil up in the Bakken Shale deposit.
I say drill the snot out of it & it should stay here.
BUT because it's a stock market commodity I bet it'll still end up on the open market.

Info LINK for below
(According to the above site it actually takes) More than 1,7000 gallons of water is required to produce 1 gallon of ethanol from corn. This includes the water required to produce the corn crop, plus the water used in processing the corn to create the ethanol. In addition to the energy used to grow corn for ethanol, there are other significant environmental costs. For example, for every gallon of ethanol produced, there are 12 gallons of sewage effluent that must be discarded. Most of the sewage waste is processed in city sewage processing plants, producing enormous quantities of carbon dioxide.

 

Oil has become harder and more expensive to extract, even the Saudis are having trouble finding new oil. and the US has well passed already it's peak pumping capacity reached in the early 70's, and The world as a whole is according to some, reaching its peak oil production.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubbert_peak_theory just in case

 

Way off base here. Ethanol is sustainable (which is better for the environment), it is easier to produce (as simple as setting up a simple corn mash still, again, better for the environment), and generates less pollution when burned. It is slightly less efficient due to the fact that it burns cooler, but it also has much higher octane, so you can run higher compression or boost without detonation. You don't need corn to create ethanol, you can use all kinds of different plants, they are experimenting with sustainable crops. All of this is coming from a guy who hates Prius owners and the word "green", so take that for what its worth. If you build your engine with ethanol in mind, you won't have a problem.

 

As 71buickfreak, I dispise the misinformed self-righteous self-labeled greenie, they are making the one that take it seriously and are actually informed look like imbeciles.

And to me a future without engines roaring is a sad one, I hope it never happens.
Why not leave the cars to only the ones crazy about it instead? let the rest jump on electric self-guiding pods that get charged like bumper cars do, from an electrified net above.

 

Specifically, cellulosic ethanol, which uses cellulose fibers from plant stalks of many varieties, which means that you get the food stuffs from the corn or potatos, manioc, or sugar cane, then you get ethanol stocks from the remaning plant matter. Did you also know that the mash is pelletized and fed to cows, because it is friggin' corn. it does not become toxic in the process of distilling, it is rendered of starch, which is turned into sugar and then alcohol.

 

Ethanol is a good thing. The byproducts from ethanal are made into feed meal for cattle. No corn is wasted. The whole it takes this much water doesnt account for recycling of the water back into the plant. I have even seen some articles tossing in rain water to grow corn, talk about BS. Ethanol isnt perfect neither is oil, but nitro may be

 

Ethanol saves a the farms and it saves the environment, which is a good thing, and it saves high-performance engines. Personally, I love the idea of compressed air engines, which has all kinds of potential upsides. Give me a daily driver with a CA motor and a hot rod that runs 30 psi of boost and E85!

 

I also Posted a video about algae fuel that only required water and light, but the thread got deleted, so I'll post it again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xna4vys7xdc don't be afraid to explore further

 

You guys are all right and also you are all wrong. Both sides spin the facts to support their side of the arguement. Livestock feeders hate it because it raises the cost of their feed, or so they say. I raise corn and I also feed cattle. I live within 30 miles of a distillery (ethanol plant). I haul a load of corn to the ethanol plant, I then haul a load of DDG's (distillers grain) back home. The protein and fat content are greatly enhanced from the process. The corn didn't just evaporate! The load of corn brought more than the DDG's cost, win win for me. Yes, it is heavily subsidized, what does that do for you? It adds to your tax burden. Other farmers don't like to hear one of their own say this but I believe in the free market. I feel it should survive on its own merits, this "gubmint" is too big and its micro management is not in the peoples best interest. I'm a farmer and I think we should be utilizing our own oil resources. Drill here, drill now! In the mean time we will refine (no pun intended) our energy independence.
On the fun side, I filled the tank on my '55 Chevy with a 350 small block with E85. It did run although not well, it ran lean with stall and flat spots although it didn't die. The temp did not come up though. It would have tuned in if I had the time to mess with it. That was several thousand miles ago and did no damage. I prefer to run gasoline but a car can be made to run just as fast with any blend of ethanol, it would just have to be tuned to the specific blend. Just look at the big alky carbs. The question is, is it economical? I guess that depends which side of the tax you are on.

 

Hey TwoMany, with the ethanol plant in your back yard you could buy it right out of the tap!

By the way, the Okaw Valley Classics swap meet at Grizzlies stadium is April 10 this year.

 

I don't really care one way or the other about ethanol as a motor fuel (all my race cars has alcohol motors in them).

What I care about is .gov subsidies for it.

If the ethanol people can make and sell their good at a profit without any payola from Uncle Sam, good for them, I'm glad they're in the business.

If they can't, then they either need to go out of business, or figure out how to change their operations so that they CAN turn a profit.

So long as ethanol requires subsidies to operate, it is a net drag on the economy and the country. That money has to come from somewhere.

I think they could probably make it a viable fuel source, if they really worked at perfecting the process. However, when someone is paying you to do it the old inefficient way, why change, right?

The subsidies are retarding the development of the technology that would make ethanol profitable, and the producers beg for continued subsidies, because their ethanol isn't profitable.

Remove the subsidies, and they'll either figure out a way to change their process and become profitable (likely), or disappear and be replaced with something better.

 

Thanks Ryan, it's good to see that someone has some knowledge of what is going on.

When these ethanol threads come up I really get concerned. Usually a half dozen or so fire in and vehemently defend it, usually quoting word for word the propaganda from all the ethanol lobby websites. But the thing that really gets me concerned is this is a group of car guys. Not only a group of car guys, but a huge group of cumulative automotive knowledge.

I usually just shake my head and move on from these threads, hoping that most members are like me and don't want to risk crossing political rules of posting. But the thing is, people in general don't understand this kind of thing at all and turn to us car guys for information about this subject and expect us to know. I guess the bottom line of what I'm trying to say, without getting political, is that I think we should know about what is really going on with ethanol and should be working to help others understand instead of just being ignorant victims of it all.

 

Anybody hear anything about the Fed's tracking down people that are brewing their own ethanol and french-fry biodiesel and such and then running their vehicles with the fuels they've made on the public hwys and then getting hit hard with hwy fuels taxes they didn't pay?

I'm hearing about BIG fines here!!

pdq67

 

the biggest problem with ethanol.... corn.
it's about the worst way to make ethanol. Sugar cane, switch grass, and others are far far better. But the enzymes also exist to make ethanol from about any bio mass. Grass clippings, leaves, trash. Just about anything.
But making it from corn is the least efficient way.

But then this has all been covered in so many threads in the past.

 

Fully agree with you, THE U.S. FARMERS ARE DOING IT WRONG! scientist are working on mutant bacterias to transform any vegetable matter into ethanol, ¿How cool would that be? so instead of burn you you backyard's mowed grass, you just sell it to a factory for some extra money!

 

those enzymes exist, and are made here in North Carolina, like I said any bio mass

 

Then what is mankind waiting for? I want a fuel I can burn freely without consequences!

Here in Uruguay the waether is absolutely mad! I often ask old timers if the weather was as crazy as it is today, the answer is always a definitive NO!

That gives some credibility to climate change, as Uruguay is pretty flat and exposed to winds, sudden climate changes were always common, but not as harsh as today.