Flathead valvetrain "chatter"?

I havent been around a lot of flatheads, but i took the car out for a spin 2nite after i got it running. Everything seems good, but the valve train is very chatty. Not sure if this is normal for a flathead or if i have valve issues. It sounds like "chika chicka chicka chicka". It doesnt tap, just valve chatter. Is this normal? thanks

 

oh boy, well that ****s haha! i guess that will be the next thing to do on my list! damn

 

Mine taps a little bit once it warms up, it has a bit too much clearance on one valve. When I built it I ground the valve tips to set the clearance... Well, I must have mismeasured one! I picked up a set of old Johnson adjustable lifters to swap in but have been avoiding the task of tearing the whole top end down to do the deed. Head gaskets are expensive, hehe.

 

im just a little hesitant b/c i never screwed with a flathead. If it was a 302 or whatever, i would have it tore down already. I just dont want to open a can of worms.

 

does anyone know how to do the valve adjustment? Can i get a book on how to do it? any recommendations are appreiciated. thanks!

 

The valves are adjusted by grinding the stems unless you have a set of adjustable lifters. If the lifters are adjustable you can do it by removing the intake.

I ***ume you are talking about a Ford V8.

 

oh ok, i read a few articles about that, grinding the stems down. So if i just picked up a set of adjustable lifters i would be ready to go then right? just swap the old ones out and set the valves?

 

no, adjustables are taller than stock lifters. You will need to grind the valve stems to get your clearances.
Clearances can be accurately set only when the engine is cold so if you are thinking of checking what you have now, do it stone cold and check every valve at least twice as in, turn the engine over and recheck all valves a second time (around) to confirm your readings. This will also be the way you check before grinding, go Twice around to confirm.

Adjustables can be purchased thru your local farm implement dealer. Most Farm implement dealers sell parts for Ford 9n or 8n tractors and those adjustables are the same as Ford/Merc used on heavy duty applications like in grain trucks etc. The actual Ford adjustables are heavier than the Taiwanese **** that most speed shops will sell you. Many people have had problems with cheap after market adjustables so be careful. Red's Headers is about the only place I would trust other than your local farm implement dealer.


btw, your 50 should have a 239 unless somebody has added a 4" crank for 255"

If you want some good reading on Flathead service, specs and maintainence, go here and find the "Ford Flathead V8 Techno Site" link:

http://www.flatheadv8.org/phpBB/



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Good luck with your Flathead.


moe



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I had that on a '49 Ford coupe---it didn't last long but then neither did the motor. I suspect clearance issues. I kept driving it---I was 15.

 

Others may have had a different experience, but I just installed the adjustable lifters and new valves from Red's Header and didn't have to grind the stems.

Bob

 

You can see in this how the valve are installed and adjusted in a Flatty.

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In the last two years I've installed Johnson's in 3 engines with new valves and have not had to shorten the valves. If you're going to run a flattie with Johnsons, I think that periodically adjusting the valves is just a fact of life. I've heard one tip of using vaseline on the intake gasket to seal it but keep it re-usable. Anyone else heard of that?

Only problem with putting in Johnsons, is that the wrenches that hold them are impossible to use, IMO. You need to drill holes in the bosses down low as possible to be able to stick a rod in there to hold them as they are adjusted. This is, of course, for hollow lifters. I don't like the solid adjustables because they are really heavy.

To drill the holes, of course, this is best done during a tear down. This will make some cringe, but I think you can drill the holes carefully on an intact engine. Get some "lifter bore condoms" to stick down the holes to rest on the cam lobe. By any other name these are the plastic caps that go on chair legs. Also, get two magnets, one big and one small telescoping unit. Attach the big magnet somewhere in the valley in the bore you will drill and put your condom down the hole. When you drill, the magnet keeps most of the debris on the drill bit. Use the telescoping magnet to grab stuff out of the hole that is left on top of the condom. Finally, use your shop vac with the small tube attachment to **** out any remaining and pull up the condom.

Are there going to be microscopic particles left from this process? Of course there will be. I would certainly do a couple of frequent oil changes after this. You will have to figure out for yourself if it is worth the risk or not. But, with the holes drilled, adjusting hollow Johnsons on a flathead ain't that bad a job. You may want to consider green Loc***e on the threads to extend the longevity of the adjustments.

OK, let the arrows fly.

 

Oh well! I know how to do it. lol

 

This is how I do it in every rebuild. I wouldn't recomend doing it with the engine together and not be able to clean it afterwards but if you did you can also put a big magnet on the pan to get the small bits out of the moving oil.

 

Have you looked? Lots of even non-hotrod flatheads have adjustables because a set of adjustable lifters became cheaper* than all the skilled work needed for traditional adjustment a loooong time ago. Johnsons, the only common ones until recently, were same length as stockers except for a somewhat rare model that had thicker bolt heads for reground cams...which will still adjust down to stock length.
You can adjust them with the little wrenches...you will definitely not enjoy that experience but I think the annoyance and blood loss involved is probably better than drilling in an ***embled engine.
Too much clearance is one cause for clatter, another is valve tips cut off-square by whoever did the last valve job.
Noise is worse than you think...flathead valvetrain lives in a cast-iron box that makes them inherently quiet. If you can hear them, they are definitely unhappy.

*I seem to remember about $1.00 per lifter in the sixties, well into the age in which mechanics' labor started looking serious when compared to parts prices.

 

My dad said that back in the day,,he made a special tool to adjust them. He said that when they were right,,you couldn't even hear the engine running at idle,,,no clatter.
You definitley need to look at it.

Tommy

 

Sometimes you can get noise from the fuel pump push rod.

 

Flatheads set up properly can be one of the quietest engines out there. I've seen ém where the only way you knew they were running was by looking at the fan.

 

wow, then i have a long way to go! haha! it ****s cause it runs smooth, and purrrs really well. But i guess im gonna have to rip the intake off, and see what the deal is. Im scared....haha!

 

if i pick up some adjustable lifters from reds, all i have to do is pull the intake manifold off to change them and to adjust the valves? or do i also have to pull the heads off?

 

You will have to pull the heads and all the valves. If you watch my video, although it doesn't show how to adjust the valves very well, you can see how the valve, guide and spring are ***embled together and then installed in the block. They can be tricky to get out, certainly if the engine is old and has a lot of miles on it. There is a small "C" clip on the guide that hols it in the block, when you remove these (one on each valve) you can remove the valve ***embly.

 

Although my videos might be seen as more entertainment than educational you might be able to see what you are up aginst if you watch real close.

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hey thanks for the video. It doesnt look all that difficult to do, but i guess my biggest thing is the cost. I dont want to dump a lot of money into this if im not going to keep the motor in forever. And flathead stuff isnt cheap. im going to put a mechanical oil pressure guage on it this weekend and do a compression test. If they read ok, i might continue with it. If it needs a rebuild, its coming out and im going right to the 302. what do ya think?

 

Valve lash aside, If the heads were cut or the block decked you may have valves hitting the heads. Hope you checked for valve clearance.

 

If you have a late motor you can get stuff from napa, not that bad price compared to the early motor prices. Full overhaul set is $70 so valve grind set should be about $45-50. One of the first motors I fixed used the specs in the motors manual for the 8RT said .018 exhaust, clattered a lot & beat up the litters. Can't use used ones unless the faces are reground, cost $80, & then they are shorter, wrenches may not work if cam is also reground. My 221 does not click at all once warm, set .012 & .014