I am on the fence as far as what to do with my '36 Ford pickup and would appreciate inputs from any and all to point out considerations I may be missing. Currently I have 3.55 gears in a Ford 8" behind a Muncie 4 speed and my 239 8BA flathead. Going down the road in the 65 to 70 mph range, I have my RPM showing about 2700. First gear on the Muncie is kind of a stump puller as I can easily start out in 2nd on a level surface. So, I am thinking that I could swap my rear end ratio to 3.25 or even 3.00 to reduce my cruising RPM or with some more work I could go to the T-5 swap. In my mind, the rear end ratio swap is more practical but the T-5 might be more fun. Special thanks to Flat Ernie for all of the T-5 info that he has posted. Not really pertinent to the question but the reason why I went with the Muncie in the first place is that a buddy gave it to me and I used one of those T&F shifters that place the stick in almost the stock Ford shifter position.
Come down off the fence. 3.00 in the rear and done. They're probly dirt cheap everywhere used. Don't over think it. You say you can easily start off in 2nd. So, I think 3.25 would be a waste of time/money
I agree get off the fence and quit over thinking it! Seriously, go with a 3.00 and lets see how it runs.
Municie 4 speed with a stump puller first gear??? That wouldn't be a Muncie car 4 spd as the lowest first gear was 2.54.Maybe it's a cast iron Saginaw with a 3.5 First or maybe a Super T10 with a 3.43 gear?
Change the rear gear,heck of alot easier and on the wallet. The 4-speed does sound odd with that low of a first gear.
Just what I was going to say as well. Theres 4 differant Saginaws and 6 differant T-10s. Basically only 2 Muncies, Wide 2.56 or 2.52 and Close 2.20 ratio with small noticable differance for cruz'n.
You didn't say which Muncie you had, but second gear is probably 1.88 if it's a wide ratio. With a 3.55 rear gear your overall ratio in second is 6.67. If you have no trouble taking of in second, then you wouldn't have any trouble taking off in first with the same overall ratio. ***uming a 3.00 rear gear, and dividing that into the overall ratio of 6.67 will tell you what ratio you need in first for the same grunt. Therefore 6.67/3.00=2.22. First gear ratio is about that on a close ratio, and about 2.54 on a wide ratio. You may want to consider a 3.25 +/- if you ever have to start uphill. I'd go T5 and be done with it. Bob
36tbird, first thing is get under the car and look to see exactly what you have and google 4 speeds to indentify it then figure out what ratio it is. Your making a blind chose with out that info.
If you go with the ~3.00 ratio, then the Muncie first gear will be perfect for launch, w/the flatty's torque, and fourth will serve as an overdrive. Even better, as it's 1:1 in fourth, I ran the same setup in my SBC powered coupe for 11 years. Worked out just fine. (I'd rather not be constantly rowing between gears, but that gets into preferences.)
Remember that the ratios of T5 1-4 gears are going to be at least as low as your current four speed. The hightest speed (lowest numerical) gear ratio I am aware of for the T5 is 2.95 to 1 in the world cl*** box. The S10 box has much slower ratios than that. Got o Pick-N-Pull, John's Salvage, etc. and get a 3.00 drop out for your 8 inch.
I disagree, even a Muncie wide ratio with a 3.00 rear gear will be a dog in first gear.That gear will require a lot of clutch slipping to make more than a old lady take off and often cause clutch chatter.
Do you have any numbers off of the Muncie case? It sounds like you are running a transmission with some kind of super low, like was mentioned. What size rear tires are you running?
TOO MUCH THINKING HERE. It doesn't matter what trans he has, when he says it starts OK on flat ground in 2nd gear. Put 3 oh's in the ***** and forget about it
^^^^^ True Groucho, but he put to much info out there as well . Seems he hates both ends of the trans .
You guys shootin' some do'do' at me here make me feel like part of the brotherhood. So, thanks! Anyway, Groucho was the first to respond here and he supported my thought process about which way I SHOULD go. Thing is, I think most of us on here like to do the engineering and upgrade and that is why I posted this. Another thing, I recently drove a '57 'vette that had a T-5 and I was jazzed by it. Granted, a whole different animal than my measly flathead powered rat truck, but it sure felt good ranging all those gears. On the other hand, my flatmotor with that Muncie is fun, too. So, I think I will go with 3.00 in the rear but I want to keep that 3.55 stored in case I decide something else in the future. So, anyone got a 3.00 8" pumpkin laying around that they want to sell????????????
FWIW- depending which T-5 you "might" have used.....the 1st gear can be low enough that it would almost be useless with the 3.55's. That's why, based on the fact you can drive off OK in 2nd gear.....I suggested the 3 oh's with your current trans. It's what I would've done, since I believe it's the simplest/cheapest solution. Remember the KISS rule (keep it simple stupid). Sometimes things get so over thought, they seem to never get done. Make sense?
36bird, I think I have a ring and pinion out of my rpu that is great shape. I think it is what you want. It's a little more work but probably cheaper. Pm me if your interested in going that way. Do you have anyone that can change it out for you? If someone will give me the correct teeth count I can check.
Just divide the teeth count on the ring by the teeth count of the pinion. 30 divided by 10 for example= 3.00-1, or 43 divided by 11= 3.90-1, etc. Also, the number of teeth for each gear should be stamped on the ring
I am gonna jump in here and say go for the T5. You just can't beat a on overdrive for cruisin'. Whenever you can grab another gear, it's worth it. You could swap gears too, but you can also make the same changes by running a taller tire, nobody has mentioned that yet. If you can fit a taller tire, then you can borrow some wheels with larger tires and see how you like it. Just google "rear gear calculator" and you will find the info you need to make an informed choice.
The T-5 trans is available with quite a few different first gear ratios, and at least two or three overdrive ratios. All the T-5s have a wider ratio spread than any of the Muncies. At 2.95:1, the T-5Z has the highest first gear available in the T-5. That is lower than all the Muncie 4-speeds you feel are already too low. As has been suggested, figure out for sure what have now. Without that info you have no reference point for making changes.
Thanks again to all. I had looked it up years ago and the numbers showed I had a M20 with the 2.52 first. I'm going on the hunt for a 3.00 but save the 3.55 in case I do build something in the future with a T-5.
I have the gear set that you want. Here are some pics of it. Pm again and we can work out the price. Maybe someone here can give us an idea ofthe value. These are like brand new in shape with no obvious wear at all. Shipping is no problem. I can ship these to you for $10.25 by USPS in one of their Flat rate boxes. Anything you see in the pictures is just dust from being in the shop. Dale
change the rear end and be done with it, for the t5 swap your going to have to modify the x member and driveshaft to get it in there. gear swap (if you have annuter center section) takes about an hour, and while you gots it apart change the outer bearings and seal too.
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