I am ready to to align the Mustang 2 set up in my 35, does any one know the initial specs for set up. It is a 35 coupe so it is light in the front. All I am looking for is the initial starting point so I will be able to drive it to the alignment shop for final set up. For some reason the camber is way out on one side but it is brand new and never has been set up Any help would be appreciated
caster is back 1 deg pos,and 0 camber,I use a level,the caster should be the same on each side.Then the toe in about 1/16 to 1/8 should be close enought.
It should be checked with the car on the ground, as in the suspension loaded as it goes down the road. I use a few different flat strips of metal, each cut to fit the wheel diameter, just inside the outer lip, and an angle finder to set camber. I use some inexpensive Longacre toe plates to set the toe. Caster is a little more tricky. I don't have a solid method for the MII setup. I eyeball it for positive caster, and make sure that there is an even amount of "slot" on both sides. It is not exact, but it is how I get to the alignment shop without shredding tires, or ending up in the ditch.
i use the flat on the bottom of the upper ball joint hole where the nut is. you can slide a straight edge in there and then use a inclinometer or digital level. important to get both sides even. you can set it stock or a few degrees negative. race cars i have had we set the top back about 3 to 4 degrees makes the steering wheel come back to center and the car go straight. camber is usually set with the top out about 1 degree so when in a corner the tire will be flat. toe should be about 1/16 in but you could also set a little out and really will not hurt anything.
If you have power steering, you can use upwards of 4-5 degrees of positive caster without any steering effort issues. If you're running radial tires and you want to get the most out of them (lateral acceleration wise), you will want just a little bit of negative camber, call it a half degree to one degree of negative camber. Most people suggest 1/16"-1/8" toe in. Start low and work up until the thing ain't darty anymore.
I disagree with that Ryan, plenty of examples of positive camber radial tired cars around. I find with the Mustang II IFS that a 1/4º of positive camber works pretty well at self centering. Anything less they tend to hunt for the low spot in the road. 1º positive caster is pretty light, you could safely go 2-3º positive if you desire.
I should have prefaced that with "to develop their peak lateral traction". I forget a lot on this board that most folks don't really care how well their rod corners, so long as it goes down the road in a more or less straight line. Radials will live and drive just fine with positive camber, they just won't corner as well because they'll be over on the sidewall some when fully loaded. It's not a big deal, you're just leaving some tractive potential on the table is all. I agree about the caster being light at 1º positive, but for a manual steering system, much more 2º and it'll start getting real stiff feeling. The more caster you can run without undue steering effort, the more feedback or "feel" the front end will give you.
And herein lies the rub. I believe it's obvious that this guy is not building a track day car. This is a case of good for track vs good for street.
If you're aligning at home using crude instruments, bias your caster to the high side (2-4 degrees). That is way safer than trying to hit 1 degree exactly and ending up with something closer to zero and a squirrely car....then get the car aligned properly on an alignment machine.
Thanks guys at least I now have a base to work with. I am building a daily driver and I just want it to go down the road straight and safe. Thanks again
Having negative camber is not going to be "bad" for a street driven car. Nearly every modern car made ships from the factory with small amounts of negative camber on all the wheels (or just the fronts if it's RWD with a solid rear axle). Radial tires will absorb upwards of 2° of negative camber before they start to show wear problems. Positive camber wear shows sooner, but even so not until you've surp***ed the +1° to +1.5° mark. I dunno, must be a different mentality. Generally speaking, the way I go about things is that I don't do anything to a car that I know is going to reduce its performance without a good reason. Sometimes the design or the car forces your hand, or earlier choices dictate the later ones, etc. Different strokes, I suppose.
Didn't say negative was bad. But I do understand Mustang II suspensions very well and how they apply in the situation given. These front ends are already prone to input sensitivity (power or not), numb steering feedback from overboosted power racks (not that this particular case is power the OP didn't specify) even a slightly negative camber setting just adds to it. Different strokes, maybe. Otherwise I'm referring to my 20 years of tuning customer issues with these front ends.
Why must everything devolve into a ******* contest on this forum? I never said you were wrong, I even clarified what I said earlier so as not to confuse anyone who doesn't know the MII as well as you do, but it seems like you've taken a p***ing bit of advice as personally offensive somehow. You do excellent work, I don't know why we'd even have an argument about something like this. If you want positive camber, use it, recommend it to your customers, no skin off my ***. Just seems like you're being overly defensive, when nobody suggested anything for you to be defensive about. Now, if I'd called you a hack or something, or accused you of doing something dangerous to a customer's car, I'd understand such a reaction, but everyone who's seen the kind of work you do knows that'd be a hollow charge. Like I said before, you do excellent work, and I'm not really sure what we're even arguing about.
Thanks I really did not want to start a ******* match between fellow members. You guys now alot more than I will ever know about suspension and front ends. I feel that you both have merit in what you say and I am starting to understand what you are saying. So one more question if I may. I have an angle finder and an asortment of levels. Is it ok to use these to get me close?
I use a level with horz and vert sites,you have to allow for the tire on the bottom bludge out,I just put it up to tire.If its a new setup will most likely settel afther a while. You pic looks like my old car 52 chevy ,i had camaro clip that had ps hadled like a sport car.
Having installed 4 MustII front ends and doing all my own work I totally agree with COOLHAND. Each application is a degree or so different to fit the nature of the car/truck.I use Snap-On magnetic Caster/Camber gauge to do this and after a few miles check the wear pattern since I use radials on some and bias tires on others on my street rods. I also like to get every thing that's on the table as to front end geometry
Ryan, I think you're reading far too much into this than there is. Just explaining my position and hopefully anyone who reads this thread can take the information and weigh it for their own purposes. That's all man, relax.
ELpolacko I checked out your website. Looks like you do some bad *** fabricating very impressive. Thanks for your help I apreciate it. And to George/Maine the 52 has a 427 b/b and mustang 2 front end as well. This car also runs like a sports car although it could use a sway bar for high speed cornering.
If there is someone with more theoretical and real-world suspension knowledge than ELpolacko on this board, they have yet to step forward. Having purchased and installed products from his outfit, when they still sold them outside of custom work, I can positively attest to the practical end of the knowledge.
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