questions, guys. whats the big deal with getting ***les for cars over there? I ask because it's against US law to export a car if it does not have a ***le, but an awful lot of lower value cars adverts are saying no ***le, bill of sale only. I can't get a car out of the USA without a ***le, and certainly couldnt't register it in the UK without one. Is there some sort of cost implication which puts people off getting a ***le for a car when they purchase it? (For info, in the UK we have a single Government department (called DVLA - Driver and Vehicle Licensing Authority) who have sole responsibility for vehicle ownership. each car has a do***ent called a V5C which is transferred between owners when the car is sold. As far as the government is concerned, no V5C and it doesn't exist.)
***les are not issued by the US government, but by each state where the vehicle is garaged. As I recall, states started issuing ***les sometime in the early 60's to new vehicles. Each new vehicle is required to have a ***le in my state. Some older vehicles never had ***les.
Lots of old cars get p***ed around for a while before being built and nobody knows who the car was last registered to. Some have been left on property that has changed hands and the owners have either p***ed away or moved off to parts unknown. I'm dealing with a similar situation. I have a 50 sedan delivery that was owned by a parts store and hasnt been registered since it was retired by them in 65. It p***ed through a few hands before I got it and I have gotten a bonded ***le to it. I was at a car show recently and a guy recognized the car by the faded sign painted on the very patina'd side panel. He got me in contact with the original owners son who said that he may be able to come up with some photos of the car from its glory days. He figured the original ***le was long gone.
***les have been around WAY longer than the '60s. Depends on the State. Nearly every state that requires, or required, a ***le, began so much further back. I have a ***le to one of my grandfathers cars, long gone, that was issued in 1938
As mentioned, each state has its own set of rules. Some states to this day do not issue "***les" to cars if they are over 10 years old. What you get is a registration paper which is usually renewed ($) each year and they have a place to transfer the car to another buyer on it someplace. On older cars, many times the car has sat for years and the paperwork becomes lost. People die, move, ect. For these cars, obtaining a ***le can be difficult if not near impossible depending on what that states rules are. Where I live, New Jersey is one of the worst to try to obtain any papers if the car doesn't have a ***le with it. Even if you own the car and had a ***le in your name at one time but lost it and never registered the car, NJ will NOT issue a replacement ***le. You MUST show an old registration or insurance card in your name to obtain the ***le. I just went through this insanity. Car still on the books in my name? Yep. Can I get another ***le? - NO! Its an old car waiting to be restored and road worthy, but need to sell it now. Too Bad! Produce the old papers you never had.
Imagine each or our states as it's own country so to speak. They each have there own laws, rules and regulations. To this day, some states are "***le" states for ALL vehicles, while others are " registration only on say 1972 and older, while 1973 and later are ***led, and others yet are " bill of sale" only for older vehicles. BDM
In Arizona if you buy a vehicle, you are required to transfer ***le within a short time, if you don't you get penalized several dollars per month...I bought a car once that the owner never transferred ***le, I required the owner to do it before I'd buy the car, the penalties ended up costing them about what I paid for the car. Whenever I buy a car, I make sure it has a good ***le before I buy, and I transfer it to my name right away. I would be foolish to spend money fixing up a car that still (legally) belongs to someone else! In Arizona you can get a replacement for a lost ***le very easily, so if someone sells you a car and you don't get it in your name, they can get another ***le for it.
Yup, ***le laws, property/use taxes and safety/emissions inspections vary state to state and sometimes county to county. Many times the way the law is interpreted can vary from one clerk to the next - it can be a big, frustrating can o' worms. That's why some of the cars you speak of have a 'lower value'. I personally won't buy any car without a ***le unless I can get it for 'parts car' or even s**** value, regardless of what it is.
thanks for the info guys, it explains a lot. The moral of the story, it would seem, is only go for a car with a good ***le? I had a car in mind with a bill of sale only, and I had wondered about offering the vendor extra bucks to get me a good ***le for it as part of the deal, but it sounds like this may not be an option
There are companies that skirt the grey area's that you might be able to get one through like this company, basicly you sell the car to them, and they sell it back with a ***le http://www.its-***les.com/
The only sure way is to have someone actually inspect the car for the proper numbers and have proper paperwork on the car and then go into the process. Unfortunately most of the states that do not ***le at this point in time have the best iron hidden in the landscape.
Let's be honest. The reason it is against the law to import/export a vehicle without a ***le is not because they get p***ed around a lot and the ***les get lost etc. It is because car theft is a major problem here as in many other countries in the world. OK that sounds a little negative. But it is true. That is not to say that a car for sale without a ***le has been stolen. Sometimes indeed the ***le does get misplaced as has been suggested. Then there is the tax issue. Most states want sales tax to get paid each time a car changes hands. That normally happens when the car gets ***led or registered to the new owner. In order to make sure that whatever state the car was sold in has received the appropriate pound of flesh they have figured out that proper do***entation is in order. The ***ling is the easiest way to do that. So now we have car theft and taxes that are covered by the proper ***ling procedure. It is also a way to monitor who is selling cars for a living, a lot of states require a license to be an auto vendor. Some states have a determined number of vehicle transactions before one is determined to be an auto vendor as opposed to a hobbiest who is merely trading his or her prospective ways into the car of their dreams. Anyway ***ling covers a lot of ground. And yes as I stated earlier sometimes that stuff just gets lost in the shuffle. not always someone trying to beat the system. but the main reason they want proper do***entation is so they can keep track of those that are trying to beat the system.
Hey there If you need help with ***les or checking vins that are clear or anything pleas let me know ill help you out. I'm in California and yes i always recomend to buy cars with ***les or aleast give you a couple of days to see if car vin is clean or no liens on the car. Hit me up if you need anything. And its cheaper then 300. lol
The Jalopy Journal
