can a ford 400 fit in a model A frame?

i have a 29 i am starting to build and a ford 400 with a c6 that i could get. did not know if any one has tryed

 

Just wondering why you would want to put a boat anchor in your hotrod. That motor is big, heavy, sucks gas like there's no tomorrow and doesn't put out the power to go with it's size. Make certain you have a good block. They were known to crack. I worked at a Ford Dealer in 1980 and we had many warranty jobs for cracked blocks near the lifter bores or piston slap.

 

it is free

 

Heavy, yeah, I suppose. John Kaase has done some nice things with them lately, and Tim Meyer has build kits to make them really perform (think 434). But the Model A is probably not built sturdy enough to take the abuse from one. My two cents.

 

no it is cool it is rebuilt and free so just thinking if i could use it

 

The 400 is not that big, not that heavy, and with the available aftermarket Cleveland heads, has excellent power potential- as proven by winning the Engine Master's Challenge- more than once, and several teams chose to enter that particular engine. The factory no-quench smog heads were the problem, made it ping with little power, with good heads it becomes a long stroke, tall deck Cleveland with plenty of room for long rods 'n such. Check out the EMC articles and results for the last few years and find out about an overlooked potential powerhouse

 

The block as you can see has 3 bolt bosses for motor mounts that lay flat to the block. They are 45* from the 302 or 351W motor mounts, but the block dimension at that location are the same. So if a 302 can fit, so can a 400. You'll have to figure out motor mounts, or go with an aftermarket tube mount set up like in the CPP catalog that sell the mounts with it. Choice is yours really, but I personally would beef up the rails and rear end.

The 400 is a great engine, IMO, and built to 1971 spec, is pretty decent in a stock looking format. I have one in an '87 Tbird that I hope to finish someday.

 

The Ford 400M is a 351 cleveland that has a stroker crank, and the block was re-designed with 429-460 motor mount bolt holes and bellhousing pattern.
It's probably the most mis-understood motor that Ford has ever produced.

It's quite capable of making very impressive HP and TQ numbers, and there's good aftermarket support because it uses all the 351C pieces.

To put this engine into perspective, think of it sitting beside a SBC 350 that's been stroked to 383... EVERYONE is gonna rave on about the impressive power of the 383, and how it's a bullit proof combination.

Well, waaaay back in 1973, Ford did exactly the same thing. They took a 351C, which is in many ways superior to the SBC in that it has canted valves, better flowing heads, and a stronger block,,, and they put a stroker crank in it to create the 400.

Personally, I just dont get it... You say 383 SBC and everyone perks up to hear about it's effortless 375 HP and 450 TQ........ But you say 400M, and everybody says "yawn"

Now, I give you that in it's stock configuration, it's a choked down smogger motor that never came in anything sporty, and was never released from the factory with anything except a 2V carb... But then again, the same thing could be said about a 400 SBC.

There's loads of potential locked up inside a 351/400M... And as a bonus, if you find you dont like it, you can swap a 429-460 into the same space.

 

I had a 351 M and later a 400 (same basic engines) in a 79 Ford pickup. IMO, even free is too much to pay for one.

Truck had about 70K easy miles on it, owned from new. Driving about 50mph one morning on the way to my shop and it starts making a clattering noise out of the blue. Cut the switch and as the engine coasted down I heard a big CLUNK and it was locked up.

Had lost the keepers off of a valve, and the clatter was the piston slapping the valve. Once the engine slowed enough, the valve dropped further down and the piston folded it up and drove it thru the combustion chamber. In the process, it put a nice dogleg in the con rod, and the side force put a vertical 2" long split in the cylinder wall.

Found a rebuilder in Indiana who was clearing out a bunch of rebuilt 400 long blocks for $500 no exchange required. Couldn't complain about the rebuilder's work as I put over 100K miles on that engine and it still ran fine when I sold it.

But, like engine man said, neither of them had any power, and both drank gas like there was a hole in the fuel line. Honestly, I wouldn't use one of them in a rod project if somebody delivered it to me free and brand new in the crate.

Of course you can throw enough money at anything and make power, but if it was me I'd be throwing it in another direction.

 

I guess the bigger question is, what other options are you looking at besides a free 400?

 

well that is about it this motor has 16miles on it. i am trying to make a nice 29 rpu and do it as cheap as i can. free is cheap i am not going to drag race this thing just want some thing what will run and go for ever

 

if<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TD>www.35pickup.com/mulligan/weight.txt </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> u look on here it says the sbc and a 400 are 575 lb the same

 

I've been around a few mildly modified 400's that ran real strong. I don't buy the "boat anchor" BS,They were cheap and we drove them like they were never had troubles with the motors but a ton with drive lines and locking hubs

 

I don't know about the SBC, but the 400 is about right at 575# The aluminum intake with CHI heads will be comparable to a 351W at about 525#

Tom Maruska used to have the weights all listed, too, but that link is dead (geocities) so thanks for the link.

 

thanks for all the out looks just hate walking away from free

 

I know a guy that builds 75-79 f250 4x4s he has 13 of them. The 400M won engine masters. My friend gets serious power out of his and alot of tourqe. he obviously puts some money in them and has good exhauset etc. Ive seen his burn 38 inch tires. I wouldnt buy the boat anchor stuff. But as far as putting it in a model A frame i cant help you.

 

71 1st year, had less emmissions and a greater HP rating than 72 and later.

My 71 conv. had a 400 that was so wore out I keep oil in the trunk and knew when the lifters started to rattle I need to pull over and add oil. I drove like that for a year till I rebuilt it. That thing was bullet proof for a 17 year old kid with a heavy foot.

That damn car would run! Fullsize conv. that 400 had no problems going through tires.

At the time I just got rid of a shorthen down 66 ford truck w/a 429 and the conv. could hold it's own aginst it.

As a side note I will tell you a 400 will fit perfect in a 57 Ranchero....I know cause I put one in last weekend. Looks like it was made for it!

I will tell you that damn intake feels like 5000 pounds.....

 

I'd take it, use it, and maybe when a more gas-friendly engine comes along (for free, again), swap it out.
Or you may find it's just what you want to keep.

 

thanks guys i know it is not the most common motor to put in and that is why i think it is so cool. i dont want to put a sbc in this that is what every one does.i dont have any thing against it at all. but i think back in the day if a guy was looking at a motor for free i bet he would have ran it. it is want hot rodding is all about. just what i think

 

I don't know what kind of A bone you're going to build or what your standards are like but, you can pretty well make anything work.

I'll just say this, moving on from the engine. The C6 is on the large size and an A frame is fairly tight for space so you'll need to be extra careful working out how everything is going to fit and function nicely compared to say, a C4 which is a small transmission.

Then of course there will be the tranny hump. Once again, relatively small interior in and A, with a big hump for the C6.

Free is great, but you have to live with the outcome.

Things to consider.

 

i am build and 29 roadster pickup stock looking with new wheels and motor and rear end lowerd a little

 

You could put a C4 behind the 400. The bellhousing is out there but quite hard to find and usually expensive. Any toploader will bolt up using a fairly common 429-460 manual trans bellhousing if you wanted to go 4 speed.
I've read where the 400 can be fairly built to be a torque monster, kinda like a baby 460 and over 100 lbs less!! And like many others have said, you can put all the Cleveland parts on it.

 

Ok, an RPU is the most cramped of them all.

You're in for some serious head and mock up time working out the firewall recess, pedal and steering column placement etc with that engine/trans combo. Unless you have 2 foot long legs that is!

I'm not being funny, I've been in several, including one this morning, that are crap to sit in and work the pedals due to poor design, and they have all been the easy fit SBC/TH350 setups.