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ford bell housing patterns

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by cowboyinachair, Nov 28, 2010.

  1. cowboyinachair
    Joined: Nov 17, 2010
    Posts: 352

    cowboyinachair
    Member
    from colorado

    early 260 and 289 use 5 bolt 6 cyl bolt pattern

    289 302 351w 351c small 6 bolt

    370 351m 400 429 460 514 large 6 bolt

    292 312 Y blocks 332 352 360 390 410 427 428 FE's round bolt pattern

    351c 351m and 400 same family 351 c has diff bell housing

    289 302 351w same family 351w has 1 inch higher deck height

    370 429 460 crate 514 all 385 blocks

    hope this helps any questions i might beable to help with what parts swap from diff family
     
  2. thanks good info.
     
  3. cowboyinachair
    Joined: Nov 17, 2010
    Posts: 352

    cowboyinachair
    Member
    from colorado

    Welcome i just went through a thread that everyone seamed lost so i thought i would try to help
     
  4. willowbilly3
    Joined: Jun 18, 2004
    Posts: 4,356

    willowbilly3
    Member Emeritus
    from Sturgis

    351M/400 has the same pattern as the 429/460 too.
    IIRC the 351C has the small block pattern, as does the 240/300 six bangers.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2010
  5. cowboyinachair
    Joined: Nov 17, 2010
    Posts: 352

    cowboyinachair
    Member
    from colorado

    all that is up there but the 6 bangers
     
  6. cowboyinachair
    Joined: Nov 17, 2010
    Posts: 352

    cowboyinachair
    Member
    from colorado

  7. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,844

    George
    Member

    Some 400s in 73 had the SBF pattern
     
  8. mustangsix
    Joined: Mar 7, 2005
    Posts: 1,452

    mustangsix
    Member

    The early 260/289 5-bolt pattern is not the same as the six cylinder.
     
  9. Tedd
    Joined: Jul 7, 2007
    Posts: 124

    Tedd
    Member

    If this is a test, then here's what I can remember from memory for the various Ford engines and interchangability.

    Y-Block 239/256/272/292/312 - four bolt pattern - unique to this engine family

    M-E-L 383/410/430 1958-1960 - five bolt pattern, same as FE, flywheel also interchanges

    M-E-L 430/462 1961-1967 - five bolt pattern, different from FE with lowered starter, only a partial match to the FE

    FE 332/352/390/406/410/427/428 - 1958-1976 - five bolt pattern

    LYB 317/302/332/368 - 1952-1963 - five bolt pattern - unique to this engine family

    SBF - 289/302/351W/351C - 1965-1994 - six bolt pattern

    385 series BBF - 429/460 - 1968-1997 - six bolt pattern, same flywheel bolt pattern on flywheel flange as the FE

    335 series BBF - 351M/400M - 1974-1982 - six bolt pattern, same as 429/460 but flywheel bolt pattern is the same as the SBF.

    240/300 Ford Six Cylinder - six bolt pattern, same as six bolt SBF, crankshaft has same bolt pattern as SBF but requires neutral balanced flywheel.
     
  10. A couple of slight mods/additions:

    *M-E-L 462 1966-67- six bolt "trapezoid" pattern, somewhat like 385 Series but only partially, unique to the 462, the ONLY transmission that will work is the '66-'67 Lincoln C6

    * As George noted, some '73 400 blocks were used with the FMX transmission and have the SBF six-bolt pattern. Very rare, and if memory serves, only installed in station wagons.

    * First-gen 215 & 223 OHV six cylinders have their own unique pattern as well.
     
  11. bobscogin
    Joined: Feb 8, 2007
    Posts: 1,791

    bobscogin
    Member

    My head's spinning. No wonder I've stuck with Chevrolet.:D

    Bob
     
  12. True to an extent...FoMoCo engineers appear sometimes to do things for no other reason to make life difficult for everyone else. On the other hand, at least the distributors are easy to reach! :D (Well, most of them...)

    One thing to remember, though: We tend to think of "Ford" as a unified company, with Mercury & Lincoln as being just nameplates. That wasn't really true back in past decades; "FoMoCo" was more akin to "General Motors" in the sense of having different brands and product lines aimed at different segments of the market. People think of it all as "Ford", and it's really not.

    If you consider the fact that GM had different powertrains for all six brands- Olds, Buick, Pontiac, Cadillac, Chevrolet, and even GMC all had their own engines and sometimes transmissions & differentials, with only limited cross-breeding and interchangability.....well, stack that up against the different "Ford" engine families, and it makes more sense. ;)

    Lastly, FoMoCo engineering has a long departmental history (policy or preference, really), going back to HF himself, of designing powertrains for SPECIFIC applications and vehicles. That's why, even today, the Modular engines have different front dress for different chassis. Oddly enough, GM seems to be leaning that way now too, in this age of specialization.
     
  13. bobscogin
    Joined: Feb 8, 2007
    Posts: 1,791

    bobscogin
    Member

    True, and a good point. At least, by the mid 60's or thereabout, GM saw fit to consolidate all of the "non-Chevy" (Olds, Buick, Pontiac, Cad.)V8 engines to a common bellhousing pattern.

    Bob
     
  14. MeanGene427
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Posts: 2,307

    MeanGene427
    Member
    from Napa

    I haven't installed one in two weeks, but FE's have 6 bolts, not 5
     
  15. Engine man
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,480

    Engine man
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    I remember the SBF changing to 6 bolt in 1966. 65 still had the 5 bolt. Could have been a mid year change.
     
  16. cowboyinachair
    Joined: Nov 17, 2010
    Posts: 352

    cowboyinachair
    Member
    from colorado

    most of the things that are getting pointed out are far over ten years older then me and i figured the others out on my own late 60s lincoln use a choped off bell housing on the 460 to clear the heater box that uses the the extra bolt hole in the back of the block
     
  17. HOT40ROD
    Joined: Jun 16, 2006
    Posts: 961

    HOT40ROD
    Member
    from Easton, Pa

    The SBF bolt pattern changed on August 1st 1964. All 221 and 260 were 5 bolt
     
  18. 4Speeds4Ever
    Joined: Jan 23, 2007
    Posts: 30

    4Speeds4Ever
    Member

    Great info! Thanks for taking the time to type that all out. Bookmarked! :D
     
  19. 2muchstuff
    Joined: Mar 17, 2004
    Posts: 304

    2muchstuff
    Member
    from Eastern KS

    A question for the SBF experts: Did Ford ever make a 6 bolt sbf bellhousing with the early tall/narrow tranny bolt pattern?

    The 5 bolt bellhousings all have this pattern and all the 65 and up 6 bolt bellhousings I've seen have the later wide tranny bolt pattern. I'm wondering if Ford ever made a hybrid during the 64/65 crossover years. The reason - I'm considering putting a 351C in a 56 F100 with the original 3 speed overdrive tranny that has the tall/narrow original bolt pattern. I have found an aftermarket bellhousing to do this, but somewhat pricey at $500+.

    Somewhat related: In the late 60's Ford made a few toploader trannys with both old & new bolt patterns. Somewhat handy if retrofitting to an older engine.

    Thanks for any help.
     
  20. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,844

    George
    Member

    Some confusuon occurs because the early '65 Mustangs were built before the change date, the so called '64 1/2 models, are VINed as '65 but have the 5 bolt bells. '65s Mustangs built after the change have the 6 bolt bell.
     

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