Hey everyone - This is going to seem lame to a lot of you, but maybe it will help some of you as well. I'm not ashamed of my dumb questions! At least, not TOO much.. I'm going to attempt for the first time, probably next weekend, the replacement of all the brakes on my Imperial. I know I have a couple leaky cylinders, and the shoes are junk because they squeak like crazy and don't work for shit. I got some brand new Wagner stuff from work here at Federal-Mogul, all new shoes and cylinders, so I figure I'll just do all 4 corners and be done with it. I have pulled the drums before (had a really warped one) and adjusted drum brakes, but I have never actually taken the assembly apart and also pulled the cylinders and replaced them where I have to bleed the brakes. I have helped bleed brakes.. but not on my own car, and I was always the guy pumping.. wait.. let me rephrase that.. Anyway I know my way around a wrench pretty well I just like to have lots of info. before I foray into uncharted territory. Anyway.. I need a TECH here. I have lots of questions. 1. Do I just do one wheel at a time? 2. My drums have 2 wheel cylinders in them, do I do both at the same time or one at a time? 3. Like I said, I have never bled my own brakes.. Need tech on doing that I guess. 4. Do I need any special tools to pull the springs out, or just a screwdriver? What tips and tricks should I remember while attempting this unbelievable feat? This is just the first of the "TinyElvis is an idiot" TECH series.. stay tuned for more!
You have those center-plane Mopar brakes, might check with some of the Forward Look guys on adjustments/tricks there. Never did one of these, the cars I have with 'em the drums are so welded on with rust they aren't going anywhere. A lot of guys get rid of those, because they're not that great, and convert to discs up front. I think with an Imperial you can just throw some 70-77 spindles at it, but can't remember for 100% sure. More headache than you want to get into right now I'm sure. When I do 'em I try to do one side at a time so there's something to look at in case I f--- it up or forget where something goes to put it back together. You can get away with basic tools, but a cheap brake tool kit is a help - they'll have a spoon for the adjusters, a special offset box end wrench and a tool for the shoe retainer clips that is a big help, looks like a screwdriver with a head on it that picks up quarters or something. That one alone is worth having over trying to use plyers to put those damn springs all back together. I believe a '62 still has tapered drums in the back - which means you need a puller to remove them, a good heavy duty one. Only way out of that is to swap in a later rearend. At least I know the other Chryslers etc. do, or there wouldn't be rearend swap info on the 60-62 style. I can say from experience to adjust the shoes before you try to bleed, if the pistons have to push out too far you'll never get them bled off. Went to school to learn this stuff and still couldnt figure that one out - anyone for a 30 day, eventually replace every damn thing on the truck including 2 masters and the P-valve, brake job? Felt like a moron when the brake shop guy tells me that - at least it only cost $30 to have them finish. Maybe worth your time to pick up a motors or chiltons and follow the basic instructions there, too. Been too long since I changed lines on a car with a single chamber master, should be pretty simple though. Anyone else have some better advice?
I have had trouble finding out what hole the thumbgummy used, and what end the short end of the spring used, etc.. at least on more modern self adjuster crap. I have learned the hard way to take off the drums but only disassemble one side at a time, leave one together for reference. Feel like a dummy when putting the thing together for the 3 rd time and the adjuster isn't in the window.
Thanks Rusty - I have pulled these drums before, I needed a freakin' industrial puller, but at least I know where to rent it now. Those tapered drums were a bitch on the rear!! Great advice on the tool kit - perhaps I'll do that.. maybe Harbor Freight has something.
all of the above, ESPECIALLY the part about doing one side at a time. take the drums off of both sides. work on one side and leave the other side intact so that you can run over there and look at it so you get all the springs and "stuff" back in correctly. there's another brake tool that is helpful. it's like a big screwdriver looking lever bar with a bit of a hook in the end that you hook over the post when reinstalling the springs. then you hook the spring over the bar and when you move the bar away from the spring's other attachment point the spring just slides down the bar and plops right on the post where it belongs. gee, i sure wish i could explain this stuff better. run over to the house this evening and i'll show ya. oh. ten hours each way too far to go? sorry. i'm sure that some of your michigan buds can loan you some of this stuff and teach you how to use them. there's another one that looks sort of like a giant nut driver with a little tit sticking out one side of the socket at the very end. you put this gadget over the post holding a spring, twist it, the tit gets under the spring hook, pull, and the spring comes off of the post. very handy too. on the bleeding deal, they make tools to bleed brakes by yourself, but why spend the cash? get one of your buds that knows how to bleed them to come over and help. he/she can explain what's goin' on while it's happening and then you'll know what to do next time.
This is great thanks guys! Any Michigan Hamber's wanna have a thrash at the house? HAHA.. I guess it's not really a thrash.. but I do have lots, and lots of beer! Keep it coming though, and by the way, I'm assuming that when you say "side" you mean both rear drums, and then both fronts, not one "side" of the car meaning 1 rear and 1 front. TinyE
When we did the brakes on my Caddy we had a rear cylinder that was leaking so I sent it back to Kanter for a replacement. Shortly after they received it they called and said it was full of water and rust. If this system has not been serviced in a while I would suggest purging all the lines and having clean fresh fluid so you don't muck up your new cylinders.
Here's a tip: Get some masking tape or carton sealing tape and put tape over the shoes. That way you can put everything together and not get any greasy hands marks (and therefore grease) onto the actual brake shoe material. Remember to remove the tape just before you put the drums back on, and you might want to pick up a can of spray brake clean to help clean all the black dust crap off the springs/retainers/etc. Might as well also repack the front bearings with new, clean, fresh, grease while you have the front hubs off.
The tips about taping the new brake shoes to keep them from getting greasy and purging the brake lines and the master cylinder before hooking up the new wheel cylinders are VERY good tips. I would only add to purge the brake lines and master cylinder BEFORE you start work on the brakes by bleeding each wheel until nothing but clean new brake fluid comes out. This way you won't have to bleed the master cylinder and get brake fluid taking off the paint under your hood. I would only add that when you bleed them,start at the wheel furtherest away from the master cylinder and work your way forward and do the left front one last. I live alone,so I bought a hand vacuum pump so I could bleed brakes by myself. I don't like asking people to come over to help me with crap like that,and I don't like waiting 3 days until it is conventient for them to come. These kits don't really cost much money,and you can use them for other things,too.
I'm going to print this thread, if anyone has anything else to add please do! This is all great info.
All the other recommendations are right on! I have nothing more to offer other than this; get yourself a brake tool kit. The piece that atch was referencing that allows you to grab a post and slip the spring to it and on is worth the price of admission alone! Doing it with pliers, screwdriver, etc. is a giant pain in the ass. Sears offers a real nice brake tool kit that comes with all that fancy stuff and is relatively inexpensive. The one end of the plier looking thing has a spring remover built onto it so you don't have to bust your ass or endanger yourself. And the retainer spring piece is a major time saver as well. As the others have mentioned only take apart one side at a time so that you have a reference in case you get interrupted or forget something. And remember that if you do need to reference the opposite side of the car, it will most likely be a mirror image of what you are working on. I just did the brakes on a GM rear last week. I knew I should have taken pictures. Good luck dude.
Tiny Elvis, I know this doesn't have anything to do with your question, but do you have any updates on that white cafe racer that you were building? If you don't feel like posting them here, email or PM me. Thanks, Ed
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