First it was Olds, now GM has another Solomon's choice, Buick or Pontiac?

GM may kill off Buick or Pontiac



One of automaker's storied brands may follow Oldsmobile to the grave if sales fail to meet targets, execs say. It's a move ****ysts have urged for years.

By Reuters

General Motors, which issued a shock profit warning last week and has been losing market share, may phase out one of its weaker car brands if sales fail to meet projections, company Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said on Wednesday.

GM's Buick and Pontiac are both "damaged brands'' due to lack of investment over the years, and GM is working to correct that with an array of new vehicles coming to market, Lutz told a Morgan Stanley automotive conference in New York.

But if some of its brands fail to meet sales projections, "then we would have to take a look at a phase-out. I hope we don't have to do that. What we've got to do is keep the brands we've got.''

Financial ****ysts have said for years that the world's largest automaker has too many brands to support, even with the gradual phase-out of the Oldsmobile brand a few years ago, particularly with its weaker U.S. sales.

Stemming the losses
Sales for both Pontiac and Buick have lagged in recent years. But GM is in the midst of a $3 billion investment in new vehicles for Buick, and Pontiac showrooms and they will have four new vehicles this year, including the Solstice roadster, Torrent SUV and the G6 mid-size coupe.

GM, which last week cut its earnings outlook for 2005 by as much as 80%, posted a 6% drop in U.S. sales for the first two months of the year. GM's U.S. market share fell to about 25%, far below its share of 27.5% for all of 2004.

****ysts said last week that GM's March sales could fall as much as 10% in March, while foreign automakers such as Toyota (TM, news, msgs), Hyundai (HYMLF, news, msgs) and Nissan (NSANF, news, msgs) would continue to gain U.S. market share.

Lutz said GM will post relatively flat U.S. sales for March, however, performing much better than expected.

"I think we're going to be just about even, our best guess at this point. Either a percent over or a percent under,'' he said. "It is a substantially better month than January or February, and it looks like the whole industry is up.''

'A huge albatross'
No details about an expected restructuring at GM, the largest private U.S. provider of health care, have emerged since it roiled markets with its warning last week.

But the company, which has about $300 billion in outstanding debt, said on Wednesday it was in talks to sell a stake in its GMAC Commercial Mortgage unit after potential investors expressed interest in the unit.

And Lutz and Gary Cowger, GM's president for North America, spoke of possible demands for a cut in mounting health care benefits for the company's hourly union employees in remarks on the sidelines of the New York auto show on Wednesday.

An elimination of any one of GM's brands would likely mean plant closings and a shrinking of GM's hourly work force.

"An across-the-board compe***ive health-care plan for salaried and hourly employees could literally save us billions,'' Cowger said. Health-care costs, added Lutz, are "a huge albatross hanging over American industry today.''

Lutz particularly acknowledged that the automaker, which will struggle to make a profit this year, faces challenges. But he said GM was "taking the necessary step to right this ship.''

"Sure, we face short-term challenges, and this is not going to be a banner year,'' he said. "It's a difficult period of adjustment. But we will get through it.''

He said some of GM's new cars, such as its Chevrolet Cobalt small car and the Pontiac G6 midsize car, will post their best sales to date in March, and told the Morgan Stanley conference "I don't know where all the gloom and doom is coming from.''

He quoted one car reviewer who said, referring to GM's troubles, that the quality of the Cobalt convinced him that "the ***anic may yet turn fast enough to miss the iceberg.''

 

You can bet the farm GM is ready to give the hourly employees the shaft. Hey beancounters who do u think buys the cars anyhow?

 

They wouldn't have to get rid of any more brands or lose any more workers if they'd start making cars that people want. If THEY could only open their eyes.

 

all new cars are **** -stop all production.

 

my dad is the head of die design for gm. and buick has been on the outs before olds was even considerd. the new buick models are a last ditch effort to revamp there market. there market only consist of people over 62 as of last year i heard. bob lutz was suppose to breath new life into gm and i have not seen any of it. my dad said all he has been doing is screwing **** up around there. the gto was suppose to be look like a 64 untill he came in and said hey just use the manaro. gm has screwed up the last few years i was raised on gm and if i wanted to buy a new car right now i would be looking at ford or a import. even though i can get a gm dirt cheep they have nothing to offer me. but look out for the 07 camaro if the proto type looks like a the production model it should be killer. just think of a 69 with more curves and a lot more h.p. but new cars **** buy an old car my dad makes to much money any way

 

I guess you guys missed the story that GM kill the planned North American production of the rear wheel drive platform. Where is Saturn I did'nt think that division ever made money......
You are right they have cars people don't want. I know a GM financial guy who took 'Early Retirement' last week.

Can you imagine going to the board of Directors........We are considering eliminating another brand because we **** so bad at our jobs, we can't make it work.
Now........Let's review our incentive bonus plans again.......how much do I get for losing a billion?

 

Good grief, why not just put "Chevrolet" on everything?

 

Lutz was the guy in charge at Chrysler just before it got sold off to the Germans. He did the same thing there, cut every corner, lost a fortune and then worked a deal to "merge" with Benz. So what foregn company do you think wants GM? Think China might be in the market for an american car company? Can't wait to see what Mr. Lutz does for GM. Gene

 

Rendezvous?, Lacrosse?, Ranier? Lucerne? How many ways can you offer the public a boring 4 door sedan?

 

need to lose Saturn, and whatever dumb**** came op with the Aztec...

 

When I worked at a GM dealership a few years back they were taking then that in the near future they wanted to have everything with a plain GM badge to it. Buick was up for staying or going at that time. The unvailing of the new GTO was in hopes to keep Pontiac around for a few more years.

 

Aztec--- "The Family Truckster"!!

 

I sort of agree with the comment above, make em all Chev, they killed Olds but still have like 5 brands...... doesn't make a whole lot of sense having 4 in house compe***ors if it did then Toyota would be doing it.
There is no use hanging on to the brands out of history only, bettter to have a stronger GM building more cars on less brands and selling what the people want ?
Best bet would be to keep Chev and Cadi and whack the others I reckon, those two have the best brand power these days.

ah what do I know...... just my 0.02

 

Bob Lutz is a ****er who swans around car shows shooting off his mouth to any scribe that listens. The sooner he gets out of the way the better. The suits at GM havn't got a clue how to give the public a well designed car. They came over here and totally rooted Holden and are now trying to fix it their way which wont work. Goodbye to Aussie Engineering and hello to the **** we are being force fed.! This country built Mom and Dad moredoors for 50 years with good success, we raced em on Sunday and sold em on Monday. Now thanks to the recent US sourced leadership program of the last 5 years we are a 'niche market' car company going down the gurgler fast. Praise the Lord and p*** the ammunition !

P.S. The first 'Chinese Buick' just sailed from Adelaide.

 

Buick hasnt empressed anyone for a long while im bettin my cards on PONTIAC.

 

1. I drove a cobalt.....the seats felt like I was sitting on a park bench.
2.They should see if they can make new cars more complicated....they don't have enough **** under the hood.
3.It is the fault of the unions, and the blue collar workers.
4.All the ceo's and their ****-ups should give themselves a 100% raise, then they will be 10,000 times better than the ****
5.When gas hits $3.00 / gallon, Detroit will be caught with their pants down AGAIN!
6.BUILD A HOT ROD AS A DAILY DRIVER, WORK ON IT YOURSELF AND ENJOY IT!!!

 

like most everything else,gm has "too many chiefs,and not enough indians" or is it "too many cooks spoil the broth"? plenty of dip**** CEO,COO,CFO types raking in all the dough,and letting the cars,plants,and employees go to hell

 

I think Pontiac might get the axe as the Chinese are going ape for Buicks now,tho these ******** buICKS look nothing like the ones on North American shores save for the van i think.And since the whole world seems to be wanting to kiss the *** of the Chinese,Pontiac may be ginving a Indian burial.i can see it now Actor/activist Russell Means dancing around the Pontiac plant as they close it down

 

Toyota may not have that many in house compe***ors, but it does have 'em (remember LEXUS?)-- not to mention, somewhere, i picked up that Toyota "donates" 4 cyl motors for CHEVY smaller cars, like the cavalier, etc....?

may not be in house, but something fishy is going on with GM...so sad...

 

I'm through caring.

 

I used to.
But like some others said, GM has NOTHING for me.
How about a family-sized CAR, without hard seats (Cavalier, or whatever they're calling it this year), funky-***ed steering (Malibu), and, oh, that's all they HAVE for family CARS.

I don't recognise ANYTHING at Buick. Actually didn't know they still built anything, thought they were still trying to sell through the 1999 overproduction...

Pontiac builds - what - cars without names?? Besides the G6, I can recall nothing.

Can that be made into a song - My little G6 ?!?!?!?

Cadillac?? Are they for REAL?? You could get HURT polishing one of those. Put me down as HATING the new look.

Ford is where it's happening in American cars, but since it's down to the big TWO that's no surprise (Chrysler is German-owned, doesn't make it as American anymore).

And don't get me started on the foreigners, either. Mercedes has not ONE CAR that can hold me comfortably in the back seat (I'm 6 foot, 210 lbs). Their four-doors make as much sense as the Renault 4CV's four doors. Hell my 2CV has more room in the back, once I get there (the doors are a leetle small...)

Done ranting.

Cosmo

 

Bring back Ross Perot. The dip****s that paid him off last time should be gone by now.

 

The Aztec is the ugliest car out there to date.

As for the GTO..it looks like the Grand Prix w/ a bow on top. Nothing about it is impressive to me. It looks like any other GM sedan out there on the road. I thought it was a huge waste of time and energy to make. NOW, if it looked anything like the 65..now were talking. IM not much of a Pontiac guy, but they had thier fair share of nice looking rides.

 

yeah, but with the GTO and G6, it's obvious they're throwing the cash at Pontiac.
Unless they decide to come out with a new Grand National (which I pray to God they won't) Buick is dead and buried.
As for all the anti-Saturn comments, after the gas hits $3, they'll be the only safe bet.
Unless Texas ******** wants to hook us all up with turbo diesels and I convert ya'll to greasel-go fast and smell like fried chicken!

 

its sick it all ended up like this.but the fact is it will never be like it use to be in the 60 or even the 70.I love the poncho's but the fact is if you open the hood on the GTO its a chevy.after they killed the f-body (T/A)I stopped caring. yank the GN & Goat badges off the late models its not right, leave the mucsle cars as they were and stop using a Buick Pontiac and now the dead Olds name to sell your chevy cars,just stick your bow tie on them all and be done with it.I'm not a Ford man but if I was to buy a new car it would be the new Stang not that fast but looks like a real car at least

 

My step mom is a retired GM employee, so I too have had an incentive to buy GM. Thank goodness that Cadillac has gotten with the rear wheel drive program and put some serious get go in their cars. My DD is a 2004 CTS 3.6 Liter 255 HP V6. For my purposes, it matches the european cars because they listened to the Germans when they designed it and tuned it. Before that, I drove a C5 Vette which was also an excellent car. One of the problems with GM is their over-reliance on the FWD platforms for small, mid, full sized sedans and now minivans. Why do we sell so many trucks here in the US? Its because most drivers prefer rear wheel drive. When we could not buy a comfortable RWD sedan, we flocked to SUVs.

So, to the GM ****ers with their heads out of the sunshine, leave the FWD for One line of small cars (Saturn) The Cobalt is derived from the Saturn sedans. Chevy hasn't made a decent small car since the Chevy II. Stop trying.
Two, have two lines of chevy mid sized sedans with a choice of FWD or RWD. The rwd platforms support the sporty "niche market" for F bodies, small SUVs, and MODERN muscle cars (lighter weight, V6 superchargers, etc.)
Three, One line of trucks not Chevy and GMC.
Four, Let Cadillac keep its premium RWD only, Brand specific powertrains, and artificially high profit margins.
Five, stop pandering to the "youth market" with products that can't compete with Scion, Honda, toyota, Mitsubishi. If you are going to do it, at least outsource the design work and don't dumb down the engineering for "american" tastes. Americans are buying "world cl*** " cars like the new Mustang, the Honda accord, Toyota Prius, because they have substance and value. When was the last time we could use the words substance and value to describe a GM product other than the Vette?

 

Our newer family car is a 99 Seville STS, and it`s the biggest piece of **** Ive owned, it`s been through 3 water pumps already! Everything is going to hell on it and it`s only got 75,000 miles on it.I have less proplems with my 65 Caddy..I will never buy another new american made car again