Alright so this guy I know offered me his 49 ford shoebox tudor deluxe for $5000. I know the guy and know that he's struggling and he doesn't really want to sell it. He knew I was looking for a car and offered me dibs on it.. There's no rust there's a motor and tranny not hooked up.. The motor and trans are out of I believe he said a 60s F100.. He has every single piece that was originally on the car, black plates, all 4 matching hubcaps its just all in peices since all he could afford to do was sand it all down. Now my question to you guys is does 5000 sound like a good price for me to buy it for? I've seen some pretty jacked up ones on eBay going for around 2 and some pretty custom ones on craigslist going for 18,000-29,000 so I can't really find a good comparison just that it looks like it's pretty fair.. He said 5000 because this shop he went to told him that he shouldnt go less than 5 on it. Should I just go with the 5? Offer him somewhere in the 4s and give him the rest in pendletons and car coats haha or just keep searching? Thanks -Josh
3 days to bump. Depends if that's what you want. I see shoeboxes go real cheap. I saw a chopped one the other day somwhere and it was around 6500. There was even a driving 51 Merc in vegas a about a month ago for 4500.
You are probably not getting answers to your question for primarily one reason. Only YOU can decide what something is worth to YOU. When it comes to new items, whatever thay may be, there is usually a common price range and plenty of sources to crosscheck. But when it comes to used items, and vintage ones at that, condition determines value more than most other factors. If your Shoebox prospect has been in SoCal it's whole life, away from the beach, and it is (nearly) rustfree, that saves a TON of labor, whether you do it yourself, and more so if you farm it out. If this is a car you REALLY want, and can afford, and it is in very good condition, how far off can you be at $5000 ? Let's say the car is only "worth" $4000 to a majority of potential buyers............so what? Can you find another one in the same condition and with the same or equivalent parts coming with it, and in your 'neighborhood' for the same theoretical $4000 ? So, in that scenario, you paid a grand too much (by some opinions) ..........for something you can't easily get anywhere else. Just decide what YOU want to do......and screw the monday morning quarterbacks who MAY tell you you paid too much. Or, ask them to take to the place where they know you can buy the same or better for the same money. Do your own thinking....the world doesn't need more lemmings. In any case, have fun. Ray
for 5 grand it should be a running driving stopping put together car with a decent interior. as a dissassembled project its not worth half that.
see post #4 above. In most cases the car comes apart to 'build' anyway...so what does it matter if it's apart now, aside from the inconvenience of transporting it. Ray
Really? hmmm, this guys more than likely a first time builder, so an assembled car makes it much easier to know how it goes back together because he will be taking it apart. here, since you seem to want to start an arguement,, I'll rephrase my reply and you can take it or leave it.. I would not pay more than 2 grand for a dissasembled project with a motor of unknown origin that I cant hear run and a transmission that cant be checked. Even if its perfect with no rust dents or dings. $5000 should get you a running driving nearly complete project if you shop around. take it or leave it, as I obviously have no clue wtf I'm doing. I cant wait till we finally meet Hnstray.........
my car is running and titled, and people are telling me i'm asking too much at 5 grand. you could drive my car all the way home. guess the jokes on me.
2 door sedan or coupe? Some prefer the coupe over the sedan and vise-versa. The difference between a '49, '50 and '51 can also jump the price around. Some don't like '49's (they say there are too many little problems with the first year changes). Check out shoeboxford.com, lots of good info. and help on there also. I have owned a couple of each year and they all have there good and bad points. 5K for a basket case sounds a bit high, but if you are going to do alot of body work that can be a plus since you would be pulling all that stuff off anyway, and no serious rust can be a real big deal. Good photos would help. Most Important: BUY WHAT YOU LIKE
i bought my 50 last year for for 3500 non running but complete with its original flatty decent interior but its a ohio car replaced the floors from inner rocker to inner rocker its a 2 door sedan i hope to have it on the road before this summer
Thanks Ray! The bad part is I was just generally talking to him telling him telling hey this guy we both know joseph just showed me a 49 chevy coupe but it didn't "just need paint" and that was 3 grand with the rust.. And he already knew my money situation because it's from a totaled 2006 Volvo wagon I had which was my everyday car but I needed a wagon to transport things for my store and to and from the shows and stuff. But then I picked up a 1996 Volvo 850 turbo wagon for 1500 and now I don't need a wagon and someone else can drive the merchandise to the show because I'll be driving whatever I decide to purchase and build.. And yes the car is apart but with the car being close I can I can have AAA tow it for free and the rest of the parts can go in the wagon.. And I kind of like that it's apart but in good condition because now I don't have to be like damn uhh hmm where to start.. But I'm farming out the hard stuff (for me) such as a chop and other body work that involves cutting and lead and welding and then ofcourse paint.. And then the other stuff I'm going to attempt myself. That hard for me work is going to be done by Brad Masterson since I already know him and trust him and can call him a friend. Also about the bumping I'll know for next time I just posted it at 1 am woke up and it was on page 7..
He said 5000 because this shop he went to told him that he shouldnt go less than 5 on it. Should I just go with the 5? Offer him somewhere in the 4s and give him the rest in pendletons and car coats haha or just keep searching? Thanks -Josh[/QUOTE] Most shops don't know shit about pricing on a old car..$5 gs is a bit high for a project..keep seaching..saw 51 2dr with a running flathead on craigslist Not to long ago..he was asking $4000 register and tagged..
Hmm well I'll see if he can adjust his price but in the meantime I'll keep searching.. Also to old Skool 51 it's a 2 door sedan. I like the sedan better after it's chopped since it has a longer roof it evens on the body lines as a silhouette. Also ray and tinman you both bring up valid arguments and are both right.. I am a first time builder so it would be nice to know where things came from but since there's gonna be some body work I would have to take it off anyway and I have a bad back (too many LA assholes hit me) so with the car apart it gives me more time for other things.. And I would like to know how the motor sounds and the tranny shifts. So I guess Its just a waiting game at this point.
$5000 is a lot for a 49 Ford that you can't flip over and eat off the undercarriage because it's so nice. I've even seen pretty buildable convertibles going dirt cheap, a while back a guy had a pair of them on eBay for $2500, needed everything, but solid bodies. I'm not even going to look at what the book says they're supposed to be worth, because postwar Fords never seem to bring what the book says, again, unless they're super nice. The only exception would be a Woodie wagon, one of those in the condition you're describing would be a steal at that price.
I (this is me, personally) would rather have the entire car in front of me so I could see what "exactly" I was starting with and how the sheet metal hangs...in case there was something that wasn't obvious. If you put it on yourself, you would potentially be adjusting the gaps yourself, to your liking, rather than where they were...again this only applys if something were wrong in the first place. Another thing would be all of the fasteners for things that are apart or not where they should be. Are they all there or would you have to hunt down fasteners? Little stuff but can be a real headache!
That's usually how these "what's it worth" threads go Josh; 40% say "Hell yeah, what a deal, don't let it slip thru your fingers" 40% say "Hell NO, it's not worth half that, pass on it" - which brings on the inevitable "show me where I can buy one for that'' posts. And finally the 20% who say "It's your money, only YOU know what it's worth to you" Another thing to remember is that HAMB members are spread out all over the world, what it's worth in Cali has very little reflection on what it's worth on the East coast, not to mention you're also getting some people's opinions who may or may not like the car in question. The one piece of advice I'll give kind of mirrors DaTinmans post; If you can't drive it, hear it run, etc. you're best off to assume that none of the drivetrain, brakes, etc. are any good. "Ran when parked" will bite you in the ass more often than not. And my honest 2 cents? I think $5K is a little steep for the car as you describe it. Good luck with it, whatever you do. BTW here's my '50 Shoebox.
since you have limits on experience and some body problems why not look for either an abandoned project that has had a ton of upgrades already done? Or find a driver to learn on and then go for the radical chopped, slammed whatever. cost for man hours, plus parts and get real high real fast when you have to farm out too much. your life-money-ride-do what is best for you. looked through the cars for sale here? I bought my project chopped '51 Ford Coupe for $6K in LA a couple of years ago-with running 302/C4/Chevy S10 front clip and rearend, etc. still not on the road.
I'm gonna show the person that has the car this thread.. And also see how easy it is to hook up the motor and tranny because the tranny was out of the car but I saw it. And see if he will come down.. I've seen on craigslist a couple of unfinished projects but one had hydraulics and the other guy had no pics.. But they were the same price 9500 obo and both 45 mins away in different directions.. I have looked through the cars on here most are pretty far and not worth the price after shipping and others arent what I'm looking for.. But also it's been on my phone so I'll get on a real computer and check them out again.. And Gator your cars sick! These cars I like without the skirts.. Thanks again for everyones input and good thing my insurance check is in the mail and I didn't already buy the car..
be happy to make your acquaintance......I've been at the last two Hundred Car Pileups and other venues.....let me know when/where you'll be and I'll introduce myself. I think you appear a bit thin skinned, at least today, in regard to this thread. Since you are, apparently a 'tin bender' I would think you DO KNOW how expensive extensive rust repairs can be. Perhaps you have better connections than most on finding bargain priced project vehicles, some guys do have that ability/talent. But I really don't know what about my post and follow-up rattles your cage. Aside from a difference in opinion as to what it might be worth, neither of us having seen the car in question, what do you disagree with most? What kind of forum for discussion would this be if opinions/experiences didn't vary to some degree? Ray
$5000 for a pile of parts is too much. A disassembled car is not worth more than one that is still together. I cannot find the pieces and where they go when I take them apart, much less when someone else does it and move the project around a time or two. It is more than just bolting the fenders back on. Do you want to help the guy out, call it charity. If you want a good deal, offer him 1/2. Until I see pictures, $2500 would be plenty. It is in pieces, price it accordingly. Neal By the way, bump the thread when you think you need to. The 3 day rule is for the classified's.
Trading Pendletons...HELL yeah, you should get at least 2500$ off for those mofos. I been to Greenspans and theres so much badass shit in there...
Oh ok cool about the bumping.. And hells yeah i should put a post in the classifieds.. Like what's up what you got and what you need willing to trade for pendletons and cash. Hahaha
Sedans typically run cheap. We paid $1800 for the one we built in my photo album, and $800 for another that was in better condition for a couple parts. Locally, there's a '50 that's super solid looking for $5K...appears one could replace fuel lines, drain the tank, some brakes and tires...and ride. And I still think it's slightly on the high side. Of course, value is somewhat relative. I know of probably 10 to 15 shoeboxes sitting in the general area in fields, sheds, and carports, so at least around here they are not too rare. In L.A. it's maybe a different story.
ya in LA you get super duper projects for 1800 and fully built swapped out for over 25,000 so thats why i wasnt sure how 5,000 was since theres no other comparisons around me.. so thanks for the imput and im just going to keep looking..
That is your best bet just keep looking, I agree with everyone on here, 5K is on the high end. BTW, I am almost surprised with all the business you guys do with car clubs and gearheads, deals aren't flying your way. I think once you start spreading the word that Greenspan's (or at least you are) is looking for a ride, you should have a list of rides to pick from. I can almost see a cool truck to use as a shop truck to advertise the business (not that you guys need it) but it would tie in really cool with the store and what you guys stand for.
You should work backwards from "Finished Value". Take the Finished Value of your project (whatever level of finish you choose), subtract the cost of finishing, and the result is your offer price. For example, if a top condition "Driver" is worth $18,000 and it's gonna cost you $13,000 to take this car and fix it, it's worth $5K. Figure bodywork, paint, driveline, various mechanicals, missing parts, etc. It adds up quick. Don't forget chrome. Damn, that stuff is expensive today. This only works with detached emotions. If you really want something, you'll pay more.
for whatever it's worth, i buy and sell a lot of cars and from your basic description, and without seeing pictures, that sounds like way too much. i've seen it a lot; people get a car that's worth 5k running and driving, tear it all apart to "restore" it, sand all the paint off and put all the parts in a neat little pile, then something happens and they gotta sell it-and they still want 5k for it. at this point it sounds like it's a pile of parts. i agree with those who have said that it's much easier to start with a runner/driver than it is to try to reassemble someone's aborted project. i've made that mistake before, trying to put back what i didn't take apart, locate all the pieces, nuts, bolts, clips, etc and put the puzzle back together. it's a nightmare. again take it for what it's worth, but it should be running and driving and have at least decent paint (or any paint) on it for $5k in my opinion. i don't think you'll have much luck offering him half though. now that some knucklehead told him it's worth 5k, it's going to be tough. add into the equation that he is a friend of yours and the negotiating process becomes a slippery slope.
The last 3 posters you all bring up pretty damn good points.. I like trucks and admire trucks but I live in mid city LA and a truck isn't too practical since I want to drive whatever car I get atleast half the time.. But for the store a truck would represent us the best. The total value adding up taking away formula is some good advice I'll probably use the rest of my life.. Haha I'm only 20 so I still have time to buy and fix something up just since Im getting the check I wanted to get the big things out of the way.. And again the 5k being too much and yeah he's my friend so I feel like a dick saying 4900 even.. So I may just have to walk away from this offer and keep on looking and I'll probably post up some kind of want ad in the classifieds. Thanks for everyones input and opinions and help since craigslist and eBay right now made it seem like it was ok..
If he's your friend and you don't want to insult him, then ask him for a "right of first refusal" which basically means you have the opportunity to meet any bona-fide offer he recieves. BTW: I wouldn't pay $5K for a '49 Shoebox in pieces. Figure 7-8 grand for body/paint alone, 2-3 grand for drivetrain, 2-3 grand for interior, 1-2 grand for suspension, etc. Don't forget--- your labor is NOT free!
Hmm yea your right on point for my calculations I was planning. So I'm just gonna keep looking and hopefully I'll find something out there. Thanks for the input!
The Jalopy Journal
