I'm looking for help setting up a dual range slant pan hydro. I need to fab up a shifter and tv linkage. I'm thinking about doing it with cables. Cable from carb linkage to tv and cable from shifter to shift linkage. I've seen the B&M and others that all use gates. Some are stair stepped? What is the purpose for this? And since I'm planning on building the shifter and linkage myself, is there any reason why I cant just go straight fwd and back with the shifter? Also, what are the pro's and con's of using a cable for the tv vs. using rods and linkage? I know from reading that from idle to wot, the tx needs to go from all the back to all the way forward. But is it done at a progressive rate or linear? I know there are some guys here with vast hydro knowledge. Thats why I'm here. Thanks
What are you using the Hydro in? the biggest mistake in building my Hot Rod was using the Hydro.. It ****s!! unless you get a B&M Hydro stick.. unless you use the stock set up its a pain in the *** to dial in.. I learned from expiernce.. There's some knowlagble guys one here that might be able to help you out..
the gate is so that you dont over shift or wind up in the wrong gear. there's a reason every shifter is done that way. safety. safety. safety. listen to EVEL on this one.
^^^^ Mitch knows cause he and I messed it with it for days hahahaha As fo a the cable shifter..what I did to shift... I used the Lokar cable set up and had to do some major alterations to make it work.. its really more work.. and its way better to use a modern ******.. Like a T-5 or turbo 350..
Its in a 30 ford model a truck hot rod. Not racing it or anything. Just a bar hopper basically. Its a numbers matching motor/trans, so I'd hate to split them up. The only reason I thought of not using gates is because A: the ****** has the detents in it and B: I want to hide the shifter as best as I can. It's gonna be put in D and driven. I like everyting I've read about when it comes to the B&M stuff. Hydro Stick etc. But like I said, its just a bar hopper. Not racing it or going on long drives. The part I'm confused with is why a shifter like the B&M one, uses the stair steps? Is there some reason it needs to go diagonal? And the tv. from idle to wot I know the tv goes from all the way back to all the way forward, but is it linear? As in at half throttle, is the tv at 1/2 way also? Or does it ramp up faster at the end or beginning of the throttle input? Does that make sense? Thanks for the replies thus far!
Believe me don't use that trans.. even for a bar hopper its ****s... and a pain in the ***!! put a stick in it.. you will thank me later.. I have to tear apart my Finished Show car to put a new trans in it and if I would of known in the begining I would of done some thing else for sure.. if its not in a stock caddy or Olds I really suggest something else.. learn from my costly mistake.. good luck.
Piero... when you're ready, i have a th350 i'll lay on you for the good guy price if thats the way you decide to go.
What? The guy is trying to keep his hydro and you guys are telling him to throw it away. As a save the old stuff guy, something doesn't sit right with me on this one. Can you be more specific as to why you think the hydro is ****?
I'm not telling him to throw it away.. I have spent the last 3 years trying to get my Hydro to work right with my Hot Rod and it's not like hey just trow it in make some adjustments and go.. Hydros are super temperamental to adjust with linkage and the Bands.. I'm the first to say use it thats why I did cause I'm period correct like that... But it didn't turn out as I thought... Unless you use the stock carburetor set up and the linkage with all the correct linkage your going to have a hard time... He is an adult he can make his own choices.. I'm just giving him my experience..
Hey, Lawless Fab. You said it's in a 30 model A hot rod. Doesn't that sound nice? ...hot rod..... say it again........hot rod..... (sorry, I don't know anything about hydros, just glad you didn't quit)
Thx for the back up stukka! They had me on the ropes! Its a numbers matching 55 or 56 olds rocket 455 mated to a 55/56 olds dual range slant pan... or thats what I was told and from what I can tell so far, it is. Splitting it up and sticking a th350 on it would probbably get my *** kicked by someone... Maybe I should start with confirming I have what i think I have? Heres a couple pics
Hey Shawn or Bruce?... Told you guys I was a FAST learner!! I even cropped my photos so as to no offend anyone!! I just wanna make this baby run! The fact its a difficult one, just makes it more exciting!
Lawless. There are adapters available to hook up a th350. I know it might be painful to break up the pair, but it would save you some..scratch that...LOTS of headaches. Evel does know from firsthand experience, and I've ridden around with him a bunch and back up everything he says! If you absolutely have to run the hydro, good luck! Otherwise you can get adapters from Wilcap or Bendtsen's. EDIT: Might have to go manual, dunno about auto adapters..
Thx Evel.. Nice looking motor! I'll keep searching around and see if I can find some answers if they don't pop up here. If all else fails, I'll hook it up the way I think it should work, and then work out the bugs once its rolling.. Maybe one of the hydro gurus will pop in and tell me if this tv movement is linear or progressive. Thats really the only concern I have at this point.
yeah.. I have had some doubts too after looking a a bunch of pics of 455's while looking for motor mounts. The part that doesn't look right are the freeze plugs in the front of the heads. I've seen some Pontiac 455's that look like this? Again, it's not mine, I'm just doin the work.. I'm going to pull the numbers off it and the ****** and see what I can find out.
See, thats why I'm here.. I think you are correct, it is a 324. Just found this: http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/dak/pts/2227157222.html looks like what I got here? exactly.. The valve covers were another thing I was curious about too. The Olds 455 v/c's are shaped different too and bolted all the way around. Thx man!
You're one up on me. I still haven't taken the time to mess around with pictures. I gotta respect someone going the difficult route, when there's a much easier alternative. Not unlike my flathead rebuild (I hear SBC's are cheap to do)
First, do a search on the HAMB, AND in the cl***ifieds for, "Heavy Hydro's"; he was making new shifters for hydros, and may be able to help you out. He was also going to be making "other" hydro setup parts. I was going to use an adjustable cable for the TV/kickdown; I don't know how it would have worked, but I had to start somewhere. Yorgatron on here will probably chime in. There is also a hydro sticky in tech section. Have at it, and don't get discouraged by the naysayers. Butch/56sedandelivery.
Hey thanks Butch. I think I have seen the Heavy guys posts. He's the one making the shifter with the big red ball on the end right? Also, I believe he wrote about writing a book too? Or maybe I'm confusing 2 different threads? Yorgatron is the guy I was hoping would chime in. I've read most of his threads on the hydro as well. Most of the good threads, from guys that seem to know these beasts the best, are all older threads. Thats why I threw this thread up. I wasn't real sure if there was more current info or options. Or if some of these guys were even still around? I'm working the search function pretty hard! But I didn't check the cl***ifieds yet. Good idea. This site is great! Can't believe the responses and the number of people on here at any given time! I'm a member on a few other forums as well. Not hot rod forums, but ones for my truck (Ford Powerstroke) and a couple others related to work (Off Road Fab net, pirate 4x4, MTBR etc) and none of them have the responses like this site has had! I had a rocky start here, but I know well enough, thats the way these forums work. Shake out the weak ones.. Thanks again to you all for the help so far. Even to the guys telling me to dump the hydro. I do agree, a diff trans would save some headaches. But I was raised to look for challenges. There's nothing more fulfilling then to make something work that everyone says can't! Thanks again everyone
OP, Your shifter should definitely have 2 things: A neutral safety switch, and some kind of gear lockout, so it cant be shifted into reverse without pushing a ****on or pulling back on a lever like a column shifter works. I once used a ford floor shifter with a turbo 400 trans. It would lock in park, but the reverse lockout didn't align right. One of my kids bumped the shifter in reverse while cruising at 60mph!!!! On your TV linkage, I have used mopar TV linkage from the 60's & 70's. There were many variations of rods & belcranks etc. So you could build whatever you wanted.
Ok guys, I got numbers. I also did some research and think I know what I got. Almost. The casting number on the block is 567405. A 56' 324 I believe. I didn't know till now about checking for the elusive "10" on the heads. But I will check tomorrow. The trans casting number is 8615013. A 56' dual range hydro slant. I can't seem to find any tags or any other numbers anywhere that would ID this further. Except for a casting number on the opposite side of the block that reads CFD 156. If anyone has any other helpful info to add I would appreciate it! I think I have a plan now. I'll post back later in case anyone is interested in seeing if my ideas work? My early thoughts on the tv linkage: Does it have to run off the carb linkage? Or can I tap into the pedal itself and run a cable to it? I did measure the throw on the carb linkage and found it to be 1 1/2". The tv on the other hand only moves 1/2". So it's a 1 to 3 ratio. Should be simple enough to work out. Maybe even fit in an adjuster of some sort that would allow adjustment to the tension on the cable? This way you could "tighten" it up and get firmer shifts, or it would hold the gears longer, when you wanted? Shifterwise, it seems pretty simple. I'm wondering if anyone has ever used a push pull cable between the shifter and gear selector? Then a straight gate with an arm on a hinge that would be flipped in and out of the gate to block out reverse? As I said before, I want to hide the shifter as best as I can. Plus, I don't have much room to work with inside this truck... Thanks again guys..
I've run your setup in stock 54-55-56 olds/pontiacs many times. Sorry, I dont' know if the TV linkage is progressive or not but like you say, try a straight 3 to 1 ratio and see if it slips or shudders on shifts. If you want the ****** to stay in gear longer [higher RPM] between shifts, you're gonna have to do some work on the governor. It over rides any shifter position to shift itself into the next gear automatically. Use to drive me nuts but it prolly saved my engines too. With 3.23 rear gear, my old 55 olds super 88 [4 barrel carb---202 HP] would always shift into 4th at exactly 75 MPH. My buddy's 56 Pontiac with the same slant-pan hydro would slowly creep past me when racing and squirt ahead when I went to 4th...he'd still be winding out in 3rd and get 400-500 more rpm in 3rd than I did with the Olds...beat me every time. If it's a 56 Olds super 88 motor/trans it's a 245 HP, 324 engine with #10 heads. I dont' know if this is true or not but I once heard the 56 ******s [last year the cars used them and the high-end 98s and starchiefs used the "new" flat pan JUNK hydros] had an extra pair of clutches in them to help compensate for the higher horsepower angines in 56. I know the slant-pan in my 56 chieftain [cheapie] hardtop shifted firm enouogh to bark the tires.
This is my attempt to get the TV linkage to work and its been the closest to getting it good.. I'm sure an expert could probally get it to work right.. but its still not like dropping it into gear and go.. I wanna do burn outs.. hhahaah Langley on here had done this sorta thing with his and I don't how it worked for him..
I was also told buy an old timer that you could a choke cable to find the "Sweet Spot" and you leave it and adjust it when needed... So I used a manual Cruise Control set up for commercial trucks.. It had a lock on it so you could adjust it a lock it.. I mounted it under my seat and used it for a while.. it still never shifted right and I never found the "Sweet Spot".. I didn't want to destroy my freshly rebuilt Hydro so I came up with the plan above... I figure this would be closest to stock.. Guess what still ****s.. hahahaha but its better that the other way.. I'm opting for a LaSalle stick set up.. witch is bad *** and period correct.. Or a toplaoder ford ... still traditional and way eaisier... Believe me i'm one to make the old stuff try to make it work and admire your drive.. theres is nothing on my car newer than 58 so I get it .. but me the so called "Naysayer" has been screwing with it for 3 years and pretty much keeps my car in the garage till I get the new trans in.. I have been in your shoes and thats my advise..
Evel. That's Some linkage! Thank you. You just confirmed one thing for sure! I'm using cable!! but my hats off to you on yours! I do like the look of it. It would be a blast to build something like that too! I just want to keep it as simple (looking) as possible. And I really think running a cable from the pedal itself vs the carb linkage will work. I'm just trying to decide if I should keep it linear at the 3:1 or if I should incorporate a cam so that under light throttle, it will be smoothe an under heavy throttle it will chirp em through all 4? On the other note, about the motor. Well, got to my shop today and ran to the heads to see the 10 on em'. Well, unless the 10 is supposed to look like a 7..., I've got the 7 heads. Which I think means they're off a 54? That ****s. I also spotted the engine block number: VI375861 Which I'm looking into now. Also, the manifold has the number: 563966, also looking into So at this point is it safe to say it's all 56' except the heads? And why do you suppose they'd toss the 10's and use 7's? Again, I don't own this truck, just the guy finishing it. So I don't know the story behind it. And the owner told me it was a 455.. But it looks fresh. So I'd ***ume it's been rebuilt. Are they're easy mods that can be done to the 7's that may have been done? Or would it be a good idea to pull them and see whY's been done? Or screw it and run it!!?? Thanks again guys. This forum has been a tremendous help! I was around way beforethe Internet and still I can't believe we ever lived without it!
O.K., I'm going to ask a stupid question........ I can see why on the multi carb deal that Evel is using why you can't but on the one in question, why couldn't you move the coil and just use a stock linkage set up for all but the shifter?
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