First off I want to thank everyone on this site for all the info they post on old school hemi's. Without these type of sites , us hobbiests would be lost. Now what I believe to have is a 54 331 , it is an industrial engine and has no numbers that I can find to ID it. Some sites state 54's should have the bell housing attached to the engine , but mine doesn't. I would like to just know if it is infact a 331 before I buy engine parts. One of the problems I have is oil in the coolent and coolent leaking from the headers. I found the forum on fixing the header problem with sealing the bolts with Loc***e's head bolt and water jacket sealant. But can't find anything on the oil in the coolent problem. Now most cars that I have worked on in the past with this problem was a head gasket . I have talked to hemi owners and said that most common problem on other make engines are not always the case on hemi's. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks kc400
You have looked @ The Hemi Tech Index Thread? Most '54s are short tail blocks. ID should be on a flat in front of the valley cover. Mine is. Head gasket is likely.
Thanks for the insight , I will look but last time I didn't see any there. Could the oil in the coolent come from the water pump ? I have been thinking of changing the water pump to a chevy conversion but having a hard time finding a timing cover that uses the stock fuel pump . Most coversions won't accept a fuel pump and suggest using elc pump.
Ok I found the engine numbers , all the fresh paint covered them. They are IND-24-3482 S . I have checked on-line and its hard to find stuff on the industrial engine numbers. Does anyone know what year and size this is ?
331. Ind use the large 51-4 timing covers, the car version is supposed to be less cluttered. Havent tried it but you supposedly can redrill the top hole on a 55-58 cover(they have holes @ 11 & 1 instead of one @ 12 O'clock), that will allow use of the long BBChevy water pump & the OEM fuel pump.
Another thing to consider is that none of the holes in Chrysler hemi heads are blind. They all go into oil or coolant and need to be sealed.
When you remove the heads, carefully inspect the gaskets. If there is a leak, water or oil, there should be evidence. Compare the gaskets to the head and the deck, do all holes match? Are they where they should be? Your block casting number should be 1330129 if it is a 1954 variety, although if a very late offering it could be 1551629. The industrial engines often use p*** car parts like the water pump and chain case cover. If yours is more like the truck piece it is still interchangeable with the p*** car units since the drilling pattern is the same on the front of the block. You can post a pic of yours if you need a positive id of yours. The shiverlay wp adapter package will lighten the engine a little bit and your wallet alot. None that advertise offer mech fuel pump. So why do you 'think' that you would benefit from the conversion? When properly rebuilt, the stock pumps will last longer than most folks will own the engine... .
I tore it down today and found a few things. First thing I saw after taking off the valve covers were a few pieces from the valve stem seal springs laying around. Not what I wanted to see. The intake gaskets looked good and didn't appear to have any leaks. The head gaskets look to be just a piece of thin ss . Not like any other head gasket I have seen before. Both sides had oil and were dirty. I would have thought it would of had some type of gasket type of material that would seal and form . More numbers from the block 1330129-1 E 254 CWC Heads 1486833-1 Now looking through Hot Heads they have 2 different types of valve stem seals , umbrella and positive. I'm not sure what the difference is or what mine needs.
You have a 331 Chr truck engine & '54 type heads, if they are truck heads they have the fat sodium filled ex valves. Check the "hemi tech index" for details on the truck engines. Some head gaskets are just metal with spray on sealer for max compression, gaskets with material tend to be better.
Mopar used several types of head gasket in the 50's, the steel shim was one of them. If, as when new, the mating surfaces are perfect, they perform very well. The current mls types simply make allowance for less-than-perfect surfaces. As for valve stem seals, they are not absolutely required on these engines, depending on the stem clearance. Remember that there is not a flood of oil coming off of the rockers. I suggest that if the original seals are gone, and if you think that they are needed then a more proper rebuild might be in order. Your machinist will have umbrellas on hand. .
I have been doing a lot of reading on what type (manufacture) of head gaskets I should use. I have heard everything from using gaskets with copper gasket spray to not coating them (dry). People are saying to use Felpro , but no one says to use Best . Why is that? Are they no good? I can't find any shop or site that sells 54 331 Felpro's , does anyone know?
Ok so I found a full set of Fel Pro gaskets ( FS 7572 PT 1 ). Sent the heads over to the engine shop for new seals and valve job to get done. Through conversation with the shop mechanic, he told me that its not necessary to put sealer on the head bolts at re-***embly . Is this true ? They had sealer on them when it came apart . Also with the Fel Pro head gaskets , is it necessary to spray them with copper spray sealer or just use them dry ?
Just grease the threads & under the bolt head to get proper torque reading when you bolt em down. You only need spray is if the gasket is metal.
Had some bad news from the engine shop on the heads. They needs guides and the industrial heads on my 331 have a different size exhaust guides than the street heads have. Any ideas on where or who may have guides for the industrial heads ?
Not a Mopar guy, but I would think you could use the automotive style guides and valves in the industrial heads, or machine a commonly available guide to fit. Remember not all machine shops are created equal. You might want to ask for some references from knowledgeable folks in your area. A good machinist can almost always find an inexpensive solution to a problem like that. Mike
Check those Industrial Heads Casting Number----- Are they # 1556157-1 ? (have three 5's in the casting number.) If they are they are the "triple nickel" / "555" head casting. That is the most wanted castings. Also Industrial Heads have Factory Hardened Valve Seats made down deep into the head, another very positive thing. You will have to change valve guides for the car valves. I think my machinst got them from either Kanter or Egge Machine whom make special guides for this conversion. I also suspect Hot Heads can help you. I used this head, changed the valve guides, used quality car size valve stem stanless valves and cut the heads for larger valve springs. Worked out great. If they are 555 heads that is good news not bad news, provided they are not cracked. My website showing my Industrial heads reworked are here http://webdesignsadsd.com/40-57/53plymouth.html Egge Machine in California http://www.egge.com/site/?d=48&dt=1&SubCategoryId=4 Hot Heads Hemi Parts in North Carolina http://www.hothemiheads.com/valves_related/valve_guides_stock.html Kanter Pats in New York http://www.kanter.com/ ...
I would not change guides. Buy a set of car valves & a set of bronze guides 1/2 OD from SI. Have your machinist just bore the original guide to 1/2 and install the new guides inside the old guides. I do this on BBC & many other motors including early hemi.
The head numbers are 148633-1 , oval exhaust ports , 1.94 intake valve and 1.75 exhause valve . After doing some research the are 53-54 year heads. The shop said something about boring out the heads for larger guides to fit in. I just want to keep the cost down as much as possible.
Those are good heads, most folks didn't use them because they didn't have water ports on the end of the heads. I understand, Hot Heads makes a single 4 brl alum intake in what was kinown as the '54 wet intake now. They were called wet intake because the coolent themostate was casted into the intake itself. I have the Hot Heads 57-58 dry version intake and it's a great performance intake. I'm very pleased with it. My first Hemi was a '54. As a matter of fact I took my drivers license test in that old '54 New Yorker then after we wore it out Dad gave it to me and I put it in a '46 ford coupe. The org '54 wet intakes were selling for about 250 -300 on Ebay. Unless you are building an org hemi I'd rather have the HOt Head intake Which I think sell for less. I sold a '54 wet for 75.00 then seen what they were selling for on ebay. Still kicking myself. I could have paid for my Hot Heat intake and had change left over in my pocket. Personally I'm not a multi-carb guy. I did that back in the '60s in high school. They look cool but they are a pain in the a$$. ...
You wrote: "I just want to keep the cost down as much as possible." I know that feeling. I was bound and determined to build a strong running hemi for about 2500.00 to 3000.00 max. I kept a Excel Spread sheet on each item and farmed out machine work. The total was 8,143.oo not counting ***emly labor. Best of luck to you. I know it can be done but this old fart didn't pull it off. But I did a '54 for less than 300.00 back when I was in High School in 1964. Good luck on your Hemi.
Medium and heavy duty trucks always had the fat exhaust, but Industrials not so much. So, what diameter exhaust stem are you looking at? And, what is the condition of the valve itself? If the valve is usable then a liner should be considered for the guide. Easier and cheaper than a new guide. And since you're this deep into the heads now, I'll give you a warning; do not cut the spring seat deeper in order to use the wrong spring, the casting is a bit thin in that spot to start with. If you want us to help you have to provide more detail! .
Your right, I even called and they don't have one. Sorry, I was mis-informed. To bad, I aways thought the Wet intake was a much cleaner looking setup over the heads water p***over plumbing on the 55 - 58 engines. If you really want some serious horsepower, the org. 54 4 brl intake will not do it
The engine currently has the Hot Heads intake. I called the shop this morning and they had some great news. They found a set of guides in the diameter that is needed for the exhaust . I want to say that they were 3/4 but not sure if that is correct, so excuse me if that's the wrong size. The only thing that needs to be done on the new guides is cut down to the original length. I think that the price so far is pretty good , heads resurfaced, new guides , seals , and exhaust valves for less than $400 the set. I guess I can't go wrong to have them done.
Ok so I have a new problem. Put the engine together and it doesn't want to idle or run very smooth. The only thing that was done is the heads rebuilt ( valves , guides ) resurfaced and a thicker head gasket ( FelPro ). Now this has ( stock ) Hyd lifters with stock push rods. I put everything back in the same spots they came out of. Everything was torked to spec's and rockers cleaned & lubed. Now I never removed the distributor or messed with the timing before removing the heads so that can't be it. This ran like a top before having to redo the head gasket. Any ideas ??
Crank it over without spark and using a compression gauge. See what kind of compression you have on each Cly at cranking speed, maybe you have a or some Cly(s) with low compression. Your description sounds like some valves are too tight. Since there is not an adjustment in the rockers or push rods it's hard to know since you can't loosen up the valve train like you can on a small block Chevy. I'm wondering if the valve stems on the replacement valves were taller than the original valves stems since you are replacing industrial stuff with car stuff? Thus making the valves too tight. Since I have a Isky flat tappet cam I used adjustable push rods on my engine. Fords and Buicks use to drive me nuts over this on a couple of builds. At least you could shim the shafts on some of those engines. You will not be able to shim a Hemi I don't think. If the valves are too tight, adjustable push rods will be needed. If you don't have a set of adjustable rocker arms. It would probably of been a good idea to measure the valve stem heights to the valve SPRINGS pockets with the old valves and then with the new valves just to be sure you had the same stem heights from the spring pockets. But first you need to find out if this is your problem or something else. Are you sure you have the plug wires correct -- all plug gaps right --and the plugs are not fouled? . I Hope your problem isn't this complicated. .
I went through a compression test and they ranged from 195-125 (most at the 120 psi). After testing them once I ran it again. The pressure dropped about 5 psi , on sum but not all cyl's. I talked to the shop and they said adj push rod might be the way to go. They do shim up the stands, but its hard to do check the adjustment without removing the valley pan. They suggested to do a vac*** test on the intake to see what it is , they say it should be around 21 inches. The firing order is correct and I never moved the distributor from where it was. All the plugs are new and wires were marked and put back.
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