no brake pedal new disc brakes

thats sound right but m i damned if i know where

 

Do you have through frame fittings in the front? There is one kind that is hollow and trap air. Ther is a thread on this.

 

New rubber hoses? front and rear? Might have a collapsed line.

 

nope plumed along the frame i even ran different brake line to the frount

 

new rubber hoses car has only been built 11 mo.

 

double check that the calipers are installed true to the rotors. I had forgotten to install a spacer where one was supposed to be leaning the caliper in about 1/2 an inch. After three masters and as many quarts of brake fluid, the problem was found and corrected.

We had the same problem, good fluid movement, brakes energizing, but no pedal.

 

if you've eliminated the MC as the problem, and then the wheel cylinders and calipers, then it's in the proportioning valve and residual valves. remove the "extra" parts; try the system, if problem is gone, you've identified the culprit part.

i don't have a lot of faith in brake conversion kits. the folks putting them together have the same resources you do; a Raybestos or Delco catalog.

 

Try gravity bleeding it really really well like over night fill the m/c and let it drip...and or use a pressure bleeder.

 

lock the rear drums up hard with the adjusters, remove the calipers from mount and clamp the piston from moving and see if the pedal is hard. you can also put plugs in the system to isolate the problem, start at the master and work your way out until you lose your pedal. did you drive it? does it have any pedal? the pads may have to have the high spots worn.

 

new sys. but good idea on pluging the lines

 

The last time I got mad enough to set the damn car on fire after a brake job the problem turned out to be a bit of clear plastic off the brake fluid bottle. Laying on the bottom of the M/C, it acted like a check valve and would not allow the piston to pick up enough fluid. My son found it. This may or may not help.

Take a break. Go get a burger. A beer. Start over with the basics.

Brakes are really simple.

It really pisses me off when they won't act right though.

 

i have taken a couple of breaks and gone back to the basics more than once but tomorrow is a new day it could be worse you could have this problem

 

Any noticable differance between f&r fluid pressure?

 

not realy i still think it has to be a air problem some where

 

How about checking fluild flow at the master first, then on the outputs of the P-valve?

I'd take one master line off at a time, and use finger over the hole while someone moves the pedal.

What I am doing is testing to see if the flow is good, upstream from the bleeders. There should be great flow at the master if it is good. Just keep light finger pressure so it won't pull air in during pedal return.

If good at master, then do P-valve outputs.

 

You mentioned ECI. The company is owned by one of the best brake men in the business, Ralph Liesena (sp). Call and talk to him and lay out your problem. Let him ask the questions and follow his directions. I've talked to him in person and over the phone and he has never failed to locate and solve any problem I've had on brakes.

Frank

 

If the bleeders on the front calipers are not pointing straight up, you have air trapped in the caliper. If not straight up, take them off and put a block of wood between them and bleed again.
Jackie

 

When I put discs on the front of my 56, I had the same problem. I accidentally switched sides on the calipers and the bleeders pointed up, but not straight up and I couldn't get a pedal. I switched them to the right sides and problem solved.

 

agree with FAB 32 ,the guy knows his stuff , i have went through same process you have , long story short,i had to change angle of pedal for longer stroke ......... good luck

 

im having this exact problem on my 65 d100. newyorker front clip with new disks. newyorker booster prop valve and master. 11" drum brakes with new cylinders. bleed the system, 4 diff master cylinders new prop valve, new booster, ive bleed and bleed the suckers. no pedal!

 

One thing nobody has mentioned is pedal ratio. If you are using a stock manual pedal, the ratio is about 6:1, way too high for a power system. You need about a 3:1 ratio.

You said something about a residual valve in the combo valve? Residuals are not part of combo valves, but if you have a residual to the fronts, with your firewall-mounted master, remove it, 'cause it's not needed.

Frankly, I'd remove the frigin' combo valve and just use an adjustable prop valve and 10 lb residual to the rears. JMO

 

If you're not bleeding it with a vacuum pump (mitty vac) I would definitely recommend it. I've had cars that I bleed for days and never got a pedal, then when you use the pump they start working in a couple minutes.

 

When we had a problem like this we tried to locate where the problem is. We use vise grips or brake hose clamps to lightly pinch off all 3 of the hoses. If you have a pedal then, then you can eliminate the M/cyl. Unclamp each hose one at a time. When you lose the pedal then you know where to look. I had one Chrysler caliper that I could not get the air out. The clamped hose trick proved where the problem was. I got a rebuilt caliper and the problem was solved. I still don't understand it but the customer needed his car.

 

Pedal ratio is important especially when converting from manual to power brakes

 

He is running the Camaro porportioning valve AND a residual valve on the front.
Take out the porportioning valve, and see if you can get a pedal.
Is the "pin" sticking out of the end of the porportioning valve?
It may have to be reset, but you do not need it until you need it, drive it first as a Camaro will have a different weight distribution then your car. When you run the porportioning valve take out the residual valve. Its built into the Camaro porportioning valve. (if I type porportioning again I am going to scream)

 

I don't know where you got your info from, but the "pin", in a combo valve, is part of the metering, or hold-off valve, and not the prop valve, (which is located at the other end of the combo valve). The "pin" by-passes the hold-off, allowing the front axle fluid during low pressure < 100 psi bleeding. And why would you remove a residual valve? (which is not part of any prop valve anyway???) Please 'splain', K?

 

I KNOW what you are going thru brother!
I'm thinking V8 Bob nailed it at pedal ratio.
I speak from experience, PEDAL RATIO is everything!
If you had manual before (drums or discs) and power now, you MUST change your pedal ratio. Period.
I can tell a really good story about this but I don't wanna muddy the water.
Please check pedal ratio and report back.
The only other thing that bothers me is that (if I read right) you are using a disc/disc master with a disc/drum system. In my book that is a no/no! ;-)
Hope it works out and you don't chase your tail as long as I did!

 

Did you get this issue solved? Going through what sounds like a similar issue right now.