im running a stock radiator in my 1958 cadillac with a 454 and she runs hot...225-230 range and it wont cool down...hasnt got any hotter than that so i know everything is working but just not very efficient...i have a 15 inch electric fan pulling air thru the radiator, it has small wires on it so i dont think its all that great...the radiator is a four core and its 24X22 inches....i dont think a regular fan will fit cuz the motor is too close to the radiator...id like to stay with an electric fan...any ideas on a better radiator and fan set-up?....is 190 degrees to much to ask for with this size motor?...anyone else running a 454 with electric fans?...if so, what fan and what size radiator...thank you.
check your gauge, it might not be reading right. that said, try a washer in the radiator return line... it'll slow the coolant down a bit, leaving it in the exchanger longer, thus bringing down coolant/engine temps. its an easy and cheap fix to try before going medieval on the cooling system.
PS. you said you have a 15" puller fan, but didnt mention if you have a fan shroud or not. there is another easy fix that is going to be way cheaper than replacing the radiator
the fan is laying up against the radiator...theres no room for a shroud...i have two inches from the back of the fan motor and the water pump...ive tried different restrictor plates along with a 180 and 195 thermostats...thank you for the responses, i really appreciate ur time
It is imperative that you have a shroud around your fan otherwise your fan is just blowing air around and not thru the radiator. Possibly use a smaller diameter fan to make room for a shroud? Place a piece of paper against the front of the radiator at idle, the fan should be pulling in enough air to stick the paper very easily. Take a drink of water with out a straw hovering over a gl***. Now insert a straw (shroud) and you pull up the water just fine.
What if you put the radiator in front of the core support in case if it isn't there already? You'd gain tons of depth for a fan/shroud.
I'm VERY happy with the aluminum two radiator I have in my '36, cooling a 472 Caddy. It's a '65 Mustang style, I replaced a (new) copper/br*** three row, running temps dropped from 220-230 to 195-200. These things are tiny, the core is something like 16x18. Not relevant to your car, but I have a rear mounted Plymouth Neon, single core aluminum radiator mounted in the rear frame kick-up, with it's own fans, the car still ran hot untill I switched to the aluminum front radiator. It made a HUGE difference, the car is driveable now. In my Pontiac wagon ('51) I have a Honda Odyesse cross flow turned on end cooling the LS1, never gets over 210 even towing our trailer. I'm sold on the aluminum radiators, and am going to put one in our '48 Pontiac convert as well, not only do they cool better but it'll save about 40lbs over the original. You may find a single row core aluminum radiator will let you put a bigger fan with a shroud. I'd scrounge wrecking yards and see if you could find a late model ***embly with fan and shroud that'll fit your core support. May have to do a little surgery, but I've had very good luck doing just that. Brian
Does it run hot when you're at speed? If you're hot going down the freeway the fan doesn't matter so much (although you can do better in that regard). You might want to check your timing and make sure you're not running lean.
it does cool a little better at highway speeds...im looking at putting this(http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-CSUM3806/?rtype=10) into the car...will this be enough to cool a 454? btw, thank you guys for all the responses...i really appreciate it...i love this website...its like a brotherhood...with a few sisters.
With the radiator hot, feel around the core to see if there are any cold spots, which may mean the radiator needs boiling out. Is the 454 a new build? If not, the engine may have rust scales in the p***ages. Check to see if the hoses are firm with the springs inside. If not, they could be collapsing. Now check the timing and make should the vacuum advance is working. Read the plugs to see if you're running lean.
im looking at electric fans with shroud kits from summit and was wondering if this would cool a stock 454. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-CSUM3806/?rtype=10
I didn't see anywhere in the description how big the core is? I'd want it to be as big as I could possible get, and maybe even modify the core support. Something like a late model Chevy truck radiator?
the core of the radiator 2.25 inches...the radiator on the caddy is a four core and its three inches thick...the core of the summit radiator 18X27.25...i think the aluminum radiators have "bigger" cores, its a two core with an aluminum shroud...
What you posted is widely believed. And while there there are cases where slowing down overall coolant flow will improve engine cooling, that doesn't happen for the reason you suggested. Slowing down the water so it has more time to cool in the radiator also means the water in the engine has more time to absorb heat. No gain there. Although there is actually a little more going on, think of the flow between the engine and radiator as being geared together. What ever you do to flow on one side effects the other proportionally.
My Dad was given a '74 Chevy and he wanted a V8 installed. After I did the swap, I had a shop increase the stock radiator to 4 rows. It didn't work. Next I tried a Mustang II radiator for a V6 but it didn't work. I took measurements to see how much room I had and had the radiator shop build me a custom radiator. It worked too good. I had to block off some of the front of the radiator to get the engine to reach operating temperature.
18x27.5 in a modern aluminum rad. should be plenty, and the shroud and fan included is what you need. Ought to work!
Other things to look at: <O</O Where your sensor is located. If it is in the p***enger side head that is the hottest spot and will show higher on gauge. If using a aftermarket radiator get the biggest that will fit with as large tubes as possible. I use ½ tubes in mine. The larger the tubes the more cooling surface. May be try Evans coolant. Do a web search for it. Their site has lots of info. Get a heat sensor gun and fund out the real temperature of coolant leaving and entering the engine. You can also run it over the radiator and see how it is cooling from inlet to exit.
Two 1" rows will cool way better than 4 1/2" rows. It gives more surface area with the two rows of 1". Not sure if that Summit radiator will fit in the space of your Caddy, but if it will it should do the job.
i took some measurments and its gonna fit snug...i was lloking at the cfm's...will 2210 cfm be enough air over the radiator?
454 BBC is some what like the 283 SBC ... in the fact that both have a LONG water pump and a short water pump. Most 454 engines are equipped with the long pump but there is a short pump available. The short pumps originally came on 396/427 BBC ... installed before 1968 or so. The aftermarket aluminum ones are usually less than 60 dollars. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Big-...r_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1e61a5e76d The new aftermarket pumps ... flow more than the old original LONG iron ones. I think I would go for a new short aluminum pump and a BIG mechanical fan. The 1970 Chevelle ( LS6 454 450 horsepower ) came with a mechanical fan ... from GM and ran cool. Your Cadillac should also ... if you duplicate the Chevelle setup. I doubt you Caddy 454 has 450 HP . .
i'm still firmly in the "keep it cheap, try x,y and z before you go running off to buy a,b, and c". making a fan shroud is not rocket science. here are a few GOOD tech articles from the HAMB. the search is your best resource. make one from steel (use aluminum just as easy) make one from fabric and polyester resin (my personal fav) this one is how to make your electric fan look less out of place. not really "shroud tech", but this is one ****in brilliant. use a couple of steam table, or "buffet" pans this one's pretty fancy, and well done. might not fit for you, but it should give you ideas or at the very least, inspiration. there is a pic of a sweet radiator shroud in this short thread. no tech, but a great inspiration at any rate. props to my boy Jay. absorbing heat from a heavy iron casting, is going to take much longer than the same amount of heat transfer as in the copper/br*** radiator. copper and br***, or aluminum for that matter, transfer heat MUCH faster than a cast iron engine. thats not guesswork, thats physics. if someone can prove me wrong, i'd love to learn how this works, so please bring me to school on this.
.... 0n the other hand, transferring heat to water it MUCH more efficient than to air. Per my earlier post, a variety of stuff is all happening simultaneously, but here are a few things to think about: - When a manufacturer has an engine cooling issue it is often cured by speeding up the water flow, not reducing it. - To provide adequate cooling at low RPMs, the water pump on most street engines is geared to turn faster than needed at higher RPMs. If slow water flow through the radiator improved cooling, it would not be necessary to overdrive the water pump to provide adequate cooling at ow RPMs. - Installing lower ratio race water pump pulleys usually doesn't hurt cooling at higher RPMs, but will make a street engine prone to overheating at low RPMs. Again, that doesn't fit with the slower water flow is better theory. - There are cases where speeding up water flow through the engine(typically by removing the t-stat) can cause overheating. That overheating is the result of coolant flow patterns being altered, not by the water having less time to spend in the radiator. The not enough time in the radiator idea has been around a long time. I suspect it started when someone removed the t-stat from an engine, it ran hotter, then a faulty but seemingly logical explanation was reached.
theres alot to think about...im just gonna start experimenting and see where i end up...once again...thank you all.
Wal-mart, aluminum baking pan about 1 1/2" deep, lay your fan on it trace the hole, cut it out, bolt fan to baking pan, baking pan to outer radiator, be sure to take your tape measure and dimensions with ya......wa-la. fan shrould for a tight fit..........Vic
Hi Louie T, I am running a 454 in my 53 Caddy and I ran into similar problems once i got it on the road. I am running a short water pump with a derale 18 high flow mechancal fan . the radiator is a aluminum 24 inch wide with 2 1inch tube core . durning last summer I also put in a 160 degree thermostat also I have a pusher fan in front with an adjustible thermostat. the other thing is I can put on a front shroud so that all the air coming in the grill .I used flashing material which is real easy to cut and bend. Running a 160 thermostat helps when you are sitting in stop n go traffic. initially I was running lean which was the main cause of it running hot. but headers dont help with the heat . I am currently running a 180 but It has not been super hot yet. My car always cool back down once it got going . I was told that if you start driving faster and the heat increased the radiator is too small .
also if you do a thread search for : Tech... bbc install in a 53 caddy I do***ented everything that I did and what worked and what didnt.
i drove her today and she ran a little hot, 210-220...i know everything is working, its just not very efficient...i wanna get it down into the 180-190 range...hmmm.
the easiest thing to do and the cheapest is a 160 degree thermostat.That should keep her cooler and when you are sitting in traffic the temp can creep up and still be reasonable. Stay with it, there are no magic bullets .
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