Fixing a poorly welded frame....

Ok, this is an admittedly off topic car by about 10 years, but it could be on topic with a little imagination..... IMO The best car guys are here on the HAMB so I want to sneak this through if I can...

Simple question, what would you do with this?








They didn't even get it hot enough to burn the grease off.... so sad....

 

Grind it out and re-weld it.

 

Would you install a gusset as well, or just straight weld?

 

I would start by grinding the welds back see how porous they are.

 

Grind it off and see how it looks. May need to weld a small plate over top...........

 

agreed, grind it back first to see what you have to deal with... I wouldnt lose sleep over it. should be an easy fix.

 

yep to grinding it off, then see why theres buggers er,ah i mean weld. find out whats going on. if its a crack i would weld the crack first dress the weld then you could put a gusset over it. i would think the reason for the crack in the first place wasent addressed. if that is the case i dont think just welding the gusset over it would work.

 

I find that a lot of OEM factory welds leave a lot to be desired! "Frame-off" it if you really want it done correctly.

 

Ask yourself, why did it crack there ?

Then find someone who knows how to weld "all position".
Not just someone who bought a machine.

 

"Frame off" is what I would prefer, and if it was my car I would, but my customer wants to drive her car, but I don't want her car to kill her.... so I am seeking the help of folks who know best. If it was a frame off thing, I have another good frame. I think my customer would pay for the frame and my labor to install it but she has paid other vendors to "fix" the car and is really anxious to drive it, and I can't blame her, but safety first....

I think the reason for the cracks is that someone drove the car over a huge bump at a high rate of speed....

 

when you grind the weld smooth, check for cracks. if there is a crack then you will have to bevel it and run another weld over it. if there is no cracks i would think it will be ok. you can plate it just to make sure. if it has pin holes in it you will have to grind the pin holes out and re weld it and plate it. pin holes are a form of contamination to the weld and it will break again

 

the welds on there look to be done as over head weld. it takes some talent to be able to do these and get them to look good. what happens is the guy had the welder set too hot and probably with a little to much wire speed and what happens is that gravity plays a role in this and when the weld is still in its liquid form it will fall away from what you are welding. just a little tip if you dont weld alot and are trying to fix it by welding again.

 

looks like a crapy weld over the top of a crapy weld, i think if you cleaned all the grease and crap off that frame you would find more problems, let alone that rubber bushing that beat out an that arm, its a wonder the car didnt burn to the ground, if i was asked to doctor that mess up i'd say no.

 

Im kinda pissed that I can't figure out what kinda car that is.

 

I guess you're lucky the guy couldn't afford a spraycan of undercoating.

 

As a retired pipe welder, from the looks it appears to be a low hydrogen rod "Slopped" on over the existing mess!
I would grind everything off down to "White metal"---Inspect the original crack, with edge of wheel grind a shallow "Trail" in the crack, & put in a flush stringer bead. Then fab a 1/8 strip of 2 inch wide material & weld it over the damaged area.

 

What Don said and get that brake line out of the way.

 

Not trying to be a smart-ass here but ... if you really have to ask how to fix that mess correctly, I don't think you should be the person fixing it.

Can it be fixed? Sure. Does the vehicle need the frame replaced? I doubt it ... but, someone needs to clean all that tar/grease/undercoating off the frame so a person can see what condition that frame is in.

Not sure if you were joking or not (regarding the "weld didn't even get hot enough to burn off the grease") but real welding does NOT use heat to burn off contaminants ... all paint, grease, rust, mill scale etc needs to be removed BEFORE welding (which was obviously not the case here).

 

my guess...chevelle
tk

 

My guess is that the car is a GM product, late 60's to early 70's. Breaks in the frame like that are usually a result of the frame being bent and straightened. I would guess there are kinks right behind the suspensin mounting points ( where these welds are located) and about 18" back where the frame bends down to go under the cowl.
You can try to reweld this, but... IMHO The frame is weakend there it will break again. I would guess that if you put the car on a good frame rack you will find that that wheel is back and up.

 

I'd be replacing that brake line too... It looks a tad fried to me.

Cheers, Glen.

 

Cut it out and reweld larger plate in there ,Chevelle's do that ,Thats how I fixed the second one and is fine,First one kept cracking Strappe4d braced it and welded no good ,Broke Next car I cut it out side and bottom got rid of the holes and no issues for years and current owner is driving the car ,Trick is go big on area.......

 

This answer and the others like it is why I posted here, experience rules.

And yea, it is a 72 Chevelle.

I just wanted to know what others have done, or might do, in situations like this, thus my original very basic question.

Also..... "smart guys" don't need to ask questions, but smarter guys seek council.... (from even smarter guys!)

Thanks for all of the answers, I appreciate your effort.

 

I'll go along with the others, grind the piss out of it down to the bare metal and a generous area around the area to be repaired. Also scope out other areas that may have cracks that you haven't found yet.

I'd also go with fish-plating everything to give it added strength, welds alone are not good enough for this type of repair. If you're not comfortable with your welding abilities in this case, (I'm in the same boat..) have someone come in or drop the car off to a shop where the repair can be done right the first time.

Bob

 

Out of all of the suggestions posted this is the only one that is close to correct. The only part I disagree with is that he gives credit for repairing the frame which if done correctly would not have resulted in the fatigue crack. If you look carefully at the the pics you can see on the outside of the rail above the rear lower control arm bracket that the rail is slightly bulged and welded over. These early 70s midsize GM frames have their issues and when hit transfer damage all over the place. This bulge is an indication of unrepaired damage. Did the crack travel inside of the spring pocket ? Are the length dimensions on both sides the same from the lower ball joint grease nipple to the 1.2 hole adjacent to the lower rear differetial control arm the same ? Are there excessive number of adjusting shims on the upper control arm ? Does the fan bottom out on the lower fan shroud ? The shims and shroud bottoming can indicate a collapsed crossmember. More than a 1/4 " different lengths indicate damage between the suspension control points.

Welding in addition plates and such are just masking the real issue of unrepaired damage and can cause the stress cracks to reappear in different areas over extended time .

At this time I would suggest telling the owner that this frame should be replaced, especially if the crack went into the spring pocket , as this is the most correct cost effecient option.

 

If it needs to be perfect replace the frame, I have welded several cars like that and they are still on the road. Grind it down clean and flat ,reweld it ,put plates everywhere you think it needs it. although the perfectionist would disagree it will probably run 100,000 miles just like it is. Don't re-engineer these things.

 

Based on the condition of the rubber in the lower control arm, I can't help but wonder what condition the rubber body mounts are in. Replacing the body mounts (with new) might minimize chassis flex, and therefore minimize the potential for the crack (or cracks) to re-appear after it has been repaired correctly.

 

I suppose you not concerned about the cracks on the other side of the control arm mount, or the crack on the other side of the spring pocket?

Looks like the car has been beat up pretty good. I'm betting a close inspection is going to find a lot of issues. If the car was in my shop, I'd be looking over the entire frame and suspension mounting points. Once you "fix" it, all the other issues will be on you. Gene

 

If it were mine, I'd strip it down to a bare frame, sandblast it all (suspension components as well) and inspect it thoroughly. Then go about repairing any areas that need it. Give it a new coat of paint, new bushings & hardware, reassemble it all and have yourself a good chassis.

Those cracks that were welded up are most likely from worn out suspension components and bushings. If it was driven after the pictured bubble gum welds were done, I'll bet that the new welds are already cracked since it wasn't repaired properly the first time and the old bushings are still there. Grind down the new welds and you're likely to see the cracks show right back up.

A crack in the frame isn't the problem....it's the result of the problem. You can't fix the result without fixing the problem first, because it will just happen again, either in the same place, or another place. Find the problem, fix the problem, fix the result, carry on.

 

Grind it down and then drill out the end of the cracks so they dont spread and then weld them up. I would also degrease and check for others while your at it. Looks like some poor welds as well. Good luck