stick welding brackets on a cast rear end

did a search..if there is a thread let me know..i am thinking of a triangulated 4 link rear end on the 46' because i have gone with bags..i have everything i need to do the standard 4 link .but i was thinking of the ol' geometry lessons from 7th grade thinking a triangulated 4 link would be superior...question 1, i have a 85 dodge rear end..and i ***ume the housing is cast..is it?..i am stick welding with 6013 will this bite?....2nd question running a triangulated 4 link i believe i should still be running a panhard bar or watts link..will there be binding?..any and all answers will be appreciated...if there is a thread i missed let me know..thanks

 

You run a triangulated 4 link alone, or parallel 4 link and panhard or watts. But never both. I'm sure you can weld to the cast housing but I sure wouldn't considering the down side to a weld/casting failure at speed or in a corner.

 

they weld the axel tubes and trusses for four wheeling to the third member. wouldn't do it with bearings installed.

 

dont use 6013 use 7018 for sure or wire welder hopefully you know how if not hire it done

 

7018 penetrates cast?..and above ..just as i thought no watts link with triangulated 4 link..any threads here on the subject?

 

that is what dad says..weld to the tubes..that limits me to a traditional 4 link i did however see an article in 76' street rodder making a triangulated rear end...but the article was thin on info on rod and amperage used

 

7018 only, throw them 6013's in the s**** pile. Slight preheat and leave the slag on the welds until it completely cools off.

 

we do everything at home....

 

6013 is a low penetration rod intended for thin material.

I agree with the other guy on using 7018 for any high stress application. Use freshly opened 7018 at that, not old stuff that's been siting around.

 

Just triangulate the upper bars OFF the axle tubes with the center point forward like this:



It's fairly common and the geometry is quite versatile. As long as there is a triangle in there somewhere.

 

roger that..i can chip slag..so if i run a triangulated 4 link...no panard bar? 7018 works on rear end housing?..just no a metallurgist...i used the 6013 3/32 for boxing the frame..and my ol' arco got some nut..not worried bout penetration..worried bout bonding to cast

 

NICE...thats why im here

 

how thick do you figure that 85 dodge rear end tube is?...kind of hard determining amperage ..dont want to burn thru that...

 

Typically, you can use normal filler material to weld to cast, although I don'tknowmuch about stick welding so I would use what the others recommend.

When you weld cast, you will get much better results if preheat the base metal first. Overall though I don't recommend it.

Find a way to run your links so you can avoid welding to the diff. Post a picture of your rear frame section and we can help you work something out.

 

Probably 3/16 or .180ish

 

They usually weld a plug in a hole in the cast center to keep the tube from moving. I think they heat the cast center and press the axle tubes in, then plug weld it to keep it in place.

There are some special rods to weld steel to cast. The weld will hold but the cast may fail next to the weld.

 

probably 1/8"..be my guess..so 7018 rod...my brackets i made are 1/4" ..so what amperage stick weldeing fools..?

 

For 1/8" 7018 run them about 120 amps.

 

There is a fair amount of science in a triangulated 4 link to make sure the car handles properly. Do a web search and you will find plenty of calculators. Here is one that I used on my 47 plymouth.
Follow the guidlines and it will handle like a race car.

http://mysite.verizon.net/triaged/4linkcalcv15html/index.html

 

Just in case you're using an AC buzzbox, 7018 is run with DC. It will plant trees on AC.

 

My memory says 6013 is for dirty/rusty steel and 6011 is for clean steel. There are some very good rods available for cast. I have used them successfully in the past but don't recall the specifics..........M289 maybe??

I really am impressed with UNDR8D's photos/suggestion about a variation of the triangulation. A couple of other possibilities are available in the off-road arena. It is has been done by attaching circular plate to the rear of the housing, using the housing cover bolts, with a bracket at the top for a control arm.

Also, the Jeep Liberty uses a 8 1/4" axle with two parallel control arms at the outer bottom of the housing, one on each side, and a triangular control arm at top, with the narrow end of the triangle at the top of the housing and the wide side forward to the body ch***is. Axle is securly located yet articulates very well.

Ray

 

6011 is for poor prep, poor fit-up weldments. It's a very deep penetrating, fast freeze all position rod. It will burn straight through rust and paint with no issues. Also known as the farmer rod. I love the stuff and burn several hundred pounds of it per year.

6013 needs cleaner steel than 6011. It's very shallow penetrating rod. A great majority of 6013 is used on thin stuff like 14ga used in metal building, carport erections and the like.

 

thanks guys..keep the advice coming..im not lee icocca ..and the mid 80's for dodge **** was thinned out ..and can not find the specs on dodge rear end tube thickness..i will defintley go with welding brackets to the tube not the rear end housing..no digital camera..i have gone back to rotary dial home phone service..i do plan to post pics with a borrowed d camera...this is just a big deal to me cause i dont wanna burn a hole thru that rear end..im using speedway ****...using the 1/2" rod ends on the axle using the 13/16" ends with rubber bushings on the frame side..have 4 1/2" rod ends lf hand..4 13/16" rh for the frame side...the original thought was a 4 link to the frame with a panard bar..then i starting looking at the 76' street rooder mags when they were all about the t buckets..doing triangulated 4 links off the rear end housing

 

i cut my brackets to weld on the 85 dodge d-100 rear end out of 1/4"..trying to get away with one bracket ..so if the tube is 1/8"...should i go with 2 3/16" brackets instead of one 1/4" bracket ?....

 

I stick weld 14 and 16 gauge all the time with 6011 (and have all my life) ,but never have been able to get 6013 rods to weld worth a damn on thin stuff no matter how clean you get the metal ...

 

yup..just dont want to burn thru the axle tube..the brackets i made are 1/4"....

 

i was using 6013 to box the frame 3/32"..but i got 6011 1/8" and 7018 1/8"..just not sure bout the tube thickness on that 85' dodge pick up rear end..it is what i have

 

Are you sure it's not a forging instead of a casting?
I think forgings are relatively easy to weld.
Larry T

 

i worked at a offraod shop ,we did alot of custom axles and had to weld control arm brackets/ coil spring mounts and track bar mounts...i always mig welded them,,always preheat,heat it until it gets a silverish look,right before it turns orange...
when done right it will hold up to anything your gonna do with it...

 

We use Nickel Rod for welding steel flanges to cast iron pipe DC. Preheat the cast with a rose bud this will help the metal meld with it. Done for high pressure water main plant piping works great.