stick welding brackets on a cast rear end

I suggest you use 2 brackets per side, (double shear) either thickness would work. The tube thickness is just thicker then 1/8", something around 10 gauge, so if you really hook up with traction and have power on hand, a single bracket per side could tear the axle tube. Usually, any brackes holding suspension parts or a serious load should be in double shear, 2 brackets either side with the arm between. A single bracket tends to allow things to twist under load, which leads to tearing or breaking the steel and/or the welds.

As far as the axle tube is concerned, weld it like you would weld any 1/8" material with your stick welder, just give it a few minutes to cool a bit before welding the second bracket close to the first to prevent any chance of warping the housing. If you burn a hole, just weld it shut, that tube is just mild steel with gear oil in it sometimes. Gene

 

dunno what an 85' dodge is..tube thickness is..guess it's 1/8" like the other manufactures of the era

 

i can make 2 brackets out of 3/16"...just trying to weld the ones i made last year to the 85' d-100 tube rear end..amprage..rod numbers here

 

right..trying to be lazy and weld one one 1/4" bracket with gussets to 1/8 axle tube..when i should make 2 brackets out of 3/16"...just seeing what the stick welders observations are

 

Dude under no cir***stance should a suspension control arm be done in single shear, regardless of the thickness of the metal. There will be deflection under torque resulting in undesirable rear steer.

It is only acceptable to run shocks in single shear and at that, I still don't do it because it looks stupid.

From the way you are talking, it sounds like you need to put a lot more time into research and design before you build a rear suspension.

As someone mentioned earlier, there is a lot more involved than keeping the axle centered. A properly designed solid axle rear suspension WILL outperform any IRS on a flat surface, period.

There are a lot of characteristics that can be built into a solid axle like anti-squat and roll understeer that are all but impossible on an IRS.

You need two locating arms with a third locating device (or split into two pieces for a total of four arms ie four link). A wishbone will suffice. More important are the relation of the upper and lower sets of bars to one another as well as their relation and location to/within the vehicle.

A properly designed link system will maintain a consistent pinion angle and provide favorable handling characteristics. PM me if you have any specific design questions. I would be more than happy to walk you through some of the calculations.

 

Back when we were racing dirt tracks, I did a lot of stick welding to Mopar axles. Amp settings and welding process depends on the machine and person doing the job, each machine and each operator is different.

I tend to weld slower then most, so I build more heat, and my old Lincoln buzz box was a bit abused. That said, I think (I've been mig welding for over 20 years now) I used to weld brackets on axle tubes (and nearly everything else) at 115 amps with 1/8" 7018 rod. My process always involved cleaning the weld area to clean steel and clean a place for the ground clamp before beginning to weld. It sounds to me like you have burned a lot of welding sticks with your welder. Providing you actually know how to weld 2 pieces of steel together and have them stay together, the process of welding is really is not a big deal. After you get your brackets laid out, just go out in the shop and weld the brackets on your axle and be done with it. Gene

 

Not trying to be a jerk or slam you, but we all need a reality check every once in a while:

If you want to connect to the pumpkin area there are inexpensive brackets that bolt to the rear so you can locate suspension there. Suicidedoors.com has them.
Or make your own.
Then you are not trying to weld suspension to cast pieces
You should have a couple of years experience welding cast every day before you even think about welding cast brackets on a pumpkin, and if you had that experience you most likely wouldn't even think about doing it.
It does not matter if you kill yourself, but it is not your right / freedom to do something so wrong when other unwilling and unknowing families are sharing the public street with you.

 

1/8" 6011 will do the job, really good for tack welding as it sparks up under most conditions. little more cleanup as compared to 7018 but the penatration of 6011 is great. 6013 is used to repair sea-land container and is medium penatration rod.

 

Buy a TIG welder

 

hello, if you need to weld to the center section, i would use a high nickle stainless rod.its most compatible with cast steel . a little preheat is good, but not too much as you will start to distort things. most cast preheating is done in a controlled setting so you can bring the tempurature down slowly after welding, to prevent shrinkage and cracking. just get the metal evenly warm in the weld are and go for it. i also suggest a needle scaler to deslag and peen the weld all through the process. good luck, keep us posted

 

Get some power graphite and a welding blanket. After welding your brackets sprinkle graphite power on weld and cover with the welding blanket. This will keep the cast from becoming martensitic.

 

6011 is NOT farmer rod. Farmer rod is called that because farmers like to use it. 7014 is the typical farmers rod. While some farmers may have liked 6011, 7014 is usually their preference.

6011 is the same as 6010, except that it has pot***ium as an arc stabilizer so that it can be used with an AC buzz box welder.

As far as welding on your rear end goes, if it is cast steel then 7018 is the best choice.

If it is a type of nodular cast then Ni-Rod 55 is the way to go.

Dis-regard all other advice you have recieved and take it from the source

 

Call me simple (you wouldn't be the first) ... I went with leaf springs.

 

I welded on a dana 60 center section the other day w 7018
Do a pre heat for sure.
The first one I did held up and im sure this one will also.
This is on a 4WD that takes some big block abuse.

 

.....says the guy with fibergl*** bolted on an S 10.

 

no fiber(gl***) in my diet!! though i am running an s-10 rear. guess you can slam me for that.

 

I found a rear end out of a mid eighty's ford and have seen several like it in the U-Pick-it places that have the ears already cast into place on the dif. As it was already there I used them to make my four bar system from them. For me before I weld on cast iron center section I would think long and hard about a double four bar paralel system witha Panhard bar before I weld on cast period.

Kevin

 

Cast steel or cast iron? BIG difference. Cast steel use 7018 1/8 preheat to chase out moisture on your parts and weld around 110-125 amps. Dont run it down hill! its uphill rod only.
If your not sure about the cast, do a nick test with a chisle. PM me if you dont understand the nick test.
my 2 cents.

 

If you are welding on the cast you need a welding rod with a high nickel content. Be sure to clean it very well and double p*** for extra penetration and support.

Scott
welders360

 

wtf!

 

I wouldn’t think there’s any rearend center sections made of cast iron.

 

WTF is right ! Talk about knowing absolutely nothing and trying to give advice.

 

................WELL THERE IS 2 WAYS TO DO WHAT YOU WANT TO DO..................

1. typically the cast 3 rd members are made of cast steel. they are made that way intentionally because cast iron is not the proper material to take the torque and shock that the housing takes.

2. to make sure you have cast steel take a grinder and try grinding a spot on the casting somewhere. if it is cast iron you will get a dull red spark coming off the wheel, and it will not seperate like a 4 of july sparkler. but if it is a steel casting you will get a bright spark and it will seperate like a sparkler and will be noticabily different in appearence.

3. before you weld in this casting make sure you clean the area with a grinder and remove any and all contamination so you will not get any perosity in the weld. then set your machine to the proper setting for the diameter of the welding rod you are using. just befoe you are ready to weld your parts in place preheat your area to about 200 degree F. this will do 2 things. warm the base metal so you get better penitration and if there is any contamination in the pors of the metal it will burn it off.

4. last but not least you must be very confident in your welding skills. if you are not comfortable with what you are about to do don't be asahamed to ask for help from someone in the trade.

remember nothing is better than a little practice on another piece before you actually tackle the finished product.

the proper filler metal for what you want to do is as follows;

stick welding is 7018
mig welding is 70S3
tig is 70S3

any questions drop me an e-mail

 

The tubes should be steel.I would build a bridge over the rear end and weld to that.If it`s a drop out diff the housing should be steel.just weld to the top of it.

 

I didn't read all the post so if this a repeat i'm sorry. But are you sure it's a cast rear end. I can't see cast being used in building a strong rear end. For cast i use a high nickle rod. for steel I like a 6011 thats a all position wire. Or 7024 flat only wire and strong.

 

....................ALWAYS REMEMBER THE C.L.A.M.S. of WELDING.....................

C - current, this is the electricity coming to the machine
L - length of arc, this is the distance between the end of the rod
and the material that is being put together.
A - amps, this is what generates the heat so the electricity is hot
enough to melt the end of the filler material and the material
that is being bonded to the other piece.
M - manipulation, this is the movement that is used to produce a
proper bead with the filler material.
S - speed of travel, this is how fast the welder performing the process
moves to deposit the proper amount of semi molten metal required
to produce a proper amount of material from the filler rod to make
an appropiate bead to give the strength to bond the desired
pieces together.

with the voltafe preset and the amperage set by the person performing the operation the rest is up to the person performing the process.

if one of the remaining parts of the process is not followed accordingly the results will be less than satisfactory.

the end results will be weak, with incomplete fusion, imbritlement, chrystilization, lack of penitration. and the worse case if the process is performed with too much heat the materials will be chrystilized, and will break.

 

I welded the top ears from a metric rear onto an early 10 bolt Monte carlo rear and ran it in a roundy round car for several seasons with no problem. Most all rear center sections are cast steel, a very diferent alloy than cast iron.

 

I don't know what the number is of the rod, but its called ni-rod, made for welding cast iron, or you can heat it up cherry red and then weld to it...