I've been removing rivets from my bone stock Model A frame in preparation for blasting, straightening, lengthening, boxing, strengthening, etc. This leaves me a lot of alone time up in my head with the ear plugs and safety goggles and the whop-whop-whop of the air compressor in the background and a dude gets to thinking and rehashing a lot of ideas over and over. The more I take apart this frame and think about what has to be done to make it what I want or need the more I wonder if I'm on the right track. Right now, I want to run an engine that is very long that will require lengthening the Model A frame a lot. The frame rails I'm working with are pretty jacked and I have a lot of unnecessary holes to fill even before adding box tube to lengthen. Right now the roadster will be a fenderless lowboy channeled just over the frame. I've thought about using just the front half of the Model A frame since that will be exposed and fabricating the lengthened and hidden parts with new 2x4 box tubing with a mild Z and utilizing the Model A rear crossmember. After seeing what some of you guys have accomplished with home made frames, I'm wondering if creating both rails from fresh, straight boxed tubing and shaping them to the correct specs is a better idea... I could even use the original A crossmembers. This would be fresh straight steel with no holes to fill or weird bends and twists to correct, and no pitting at all to fill. That leaves the other option I've considered: If I had a 32 frame to stick under my roadster, I would. I would build a highboy at that point and this would buy me all kinds of extra room in the "cockpit" which is a consideration for someone my size. The thought of saving my pennies and buying new 32 style rails has crossed my mind... even though it would slow down progress significantly (I'm pretty strapped these days)... I could always work on the body in the meantime. I love the Model A highboys on Model A frames... but it's not for what I want to accomplish with this build. What would you guys do? Is there another alternative I've not considered? Thanks in advance for reading this long winded story of mine... p.s. If anyone has photos of their frames (especially home made ones) to post up, I would appreciate it!
I have (3) A models, all on different styles of chassis. It's just a matter of preference. Fenderless cars look awful good on '32 style chassis though.
I went through the whole "A or 32 frame" deal. I went back and forth for months. I, too, have financial concerns...especially with a newborn. After looking and thinking, thinking and looking, I just decided it was better to spend less on buying and modding an original A frame as opposed to getting a 32 modded for an A. One of the issues that helped me was the fact that I've got a coupester, and I deduced that putting a hot 32 frame under it would be akin to putting lipstick on a hog. Don't get me wrong, that hog has some good bacon on it, but a hog nonetheless. I also became convinced of using the A frame after buying the Bishop/Tardel roadster book. I like the idea of the ease of using new steel, but I'd like to save the old if I can, ya know? ALL that being said, you DO have some special concerns....the extra length you need, etc. What engine are you wanting to run? An inline 6 or something? Don't tell me you're thinking of running a Packard inline 8 like another HAMBer is doing....that thing is bonkers long. However, if you've got an REO Flying Cloud motor....those things are rad.
I love stock A frame rails under period-correct hot rods and AV8's. I don't like when people cut up good useable stock frames just to use the front portion for "the look", or when they box the hell out of them and fill holes. But that's just me. I think you should sell the A frame to someone who will use it without hacking it up. It'd be a little less work to start with new raw steel tubing to achieve the lengthening of the frame, and eliminate the boxing, hole filling, and straightening. Go pick up a couple sticks of 2"x4"x.120" rectangle tubing. The front taper is very easy to do with some nice clean cuts. You can also make the frame horns using a template from the original horns, or buy the repop horns for around $50. Here's a few pics with measurements that might come in handy...
I would either build a new frame using 2 x4 tubing and taper the front rails like a model A frame or you could buy a set of 32 stamped frame rails and put together a 32 frame with the model A front crossmember. That would be cheaper than buying a complete 32 frame but more work....... It's comes down to do you have more time or money....... I would not use the old frame rails.... after you take all the time to fill all the holes and box the rails and lenghten them you can build it out of new tubing quicker....
If you need to lengthen the rails anyway, why blow good money on new 32 rails? I'd say build your own out of box tubing and use the old crossmembers. Don't forget to taper the front of the rails and buy new frame horns.
Thanks for the opinions and thoughtful suggestions, guys. Thank you Texas Hardcore for the pics and specs. Lots of food for thought... at this point I'm leaning towards new tubing shaped to spec... Just for shits and giggles, does anyone remember that tech thread a while back with the HAMBer who made his own 32 style rails from box tubing? That was some serious craftsmanship but it might give me some ideas, if not the ability. Oh yeah, the engine I plan on running is a big straight 6... at least 6" + longer than a flathead Ford
If you use deuce rails, they only buy you an extra 3" of length. I would think that trying to fit in an extra 3" and make it look good would be a pretty big project. The contours of the rails kinda line up with the contours of the body. Since this is a poll, I vote for fabricating your own from box tubing. -Mitch
Although the deuce frame only gives you three inches extra, I found that when you mount the body you can push it back about an inch or more to center the rear tire in the well opening. Also the fire wall extends about three inches into the engine compartment, so a flat fire wall will give you another three, for a total of about seven inches for what ever long motor you are going to run. Plus, you can do a slight channel over the frame and not loose any head room.
I bought a perimiter frame from JW Rod Garage and did all the rest myself. I think they will build a frame to your specs, ( length wise ) and you can weld and fab all the crossmembers yourself. I just don't trust 80 year old steel when it comes to structure.
If you have too much money buy a new Model a frame or even better a new 32 frame, if money is tight like most of us use the A frame, they survived 80 years so they must be premium steel made in the US instead of Chinese steel made of scrapsteel.
I finally was able to remove the center crossmember this afternoon and it gave me a chance to roll the big 6 into a rough position so I could see what kind of lengthening I would have to do. By earthshaker5769 at 2011-04-09 See the thick white line on the frame? That's where the far edge of the cowl would be on a bone stock chassis. That's 10.25"! Man. If I do this, using fresh rectangular tubing might be the smartest way to go about it. You can check out more pics on my online album if you're interested.
You need to check out Hot Rod Packard on here. Seems like you guys have about the same engine dimensions. There is NO WAY that I would try to mount that engine in a stock unboxed A model frame. You are asking for major problems. My sport coupe frame is scary enough with the original banger. They are super flimsy.
What do you have the most of, time, talent, treasure? There was also a tech thread on 32 rails from plate. Box tube frame is easy, not to expensive in 2x4x1/8". After you get your plan together, one weekend tops! The steel house near me has some 2x6 x3/16 x12' long stainless steel tube in the poundage bin. I'm thinking about it.
Thanks guys. I checked out some of Hot Rod Packard's videos on youtube and they just made me grin. Way cool and different... I hadn't really thought about what I could do with 6" tubing... hmmmmm....
Man, you should talk to the guys at my local body shop. They'll set you straight real quick about the "quality" of modern steel. The owner was telling me the other day about how they get in cars less than 5 years old that have frames that are rotted through. Apparently they're not replenishing all the vital minerals and such in the metal when they melt down the 2000 model that was an 80s car that was a 70s car that was a 50s car that was a..... you get the idea. Hence why they're putting so many "rust protective coatings" on the frames. Toyota (best of the bunch IMO) just did a massive recall to either replace or coat frames on their 2000-2007 Tacomas. That's pretty damn stand up of them, but funny thing is that the body shop tells me its the US cars that are the worst.
Channel the shit out of it....... then it really doesnt matter what way you decide to build a chassis.
Shot at 2006-10-18 I took a stock frame, boxed it, made it fit the outside body lines,a lot of work ,not much money.
Here's that post using 2 x 6" .120 wall that SamIyam posted. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=305273 Here's a second that I posted a while back using .125 cold roll. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=306987 This post is also in the "Tech archive". Here's a pic of my homemade frame now..fits like the body like a glove. Go for it !
Thanks for the links and pics guys. I'll be checking those out shortly. And I was one of the guys with a Tacoma that the frame rotted out on. Didn't get a buyback, but they did replace the frame. It went up for sale the same day they gave it back to me. No thank you.
I wonder if the '32 Model AA truck frame has the special reveal that makes the '32 frames so special. If so, then you might possibly be able to play with the length of the frame without having the stretch it to fit - rather you might wind up having to shorten it! Just a thought...
If memory serves, the AA frames are pretty slab sided. Good idea though. I have a friend up the road who has a couple of those frames, it might be worth the gas just to check it out. Thanks for the suggestion.
If you are not set on all the pieces looking original, or don't mind a bit of custom fab the contoured home made frame would be the way to go. Doing it this way would be some work but you could get it to the exact dimentions you need. Using the original cross members would give it the vintage look. Repro 32 rails would be good too but more pricey for sure. I think that 32 rails on a roadster need to have an inch or two of chanell as compared to a closed car. With the full frame showing and not having the top of the car makes the frame look massive or out of proportion....my .02
I was going to suggest a big truck frame. The front dimensions are the same as passenger car. The big truck has the same cab as the 1/2 ton so the mounting holes are the same as passenger car. The big truck frames are thicker materiel and you've got tons of extra length so just cut it off where you need to get the length you need. Frank
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