overheat at Idle HELP! 283- 59 Apache

Guys i tried to start new thread but for whatever reason it would not allow my aologies. Here is my dilemma: I have a V8 59 Apache 283 that overheats only when idle. I have changed thermostat to 160, I have a manual fan with no clutch at this time, and also recently bought a shroud which was $90 from LMC!! Anyways I think my next step is to go to electric fan, but I am wondering if they sell an electric fan without an enclosure shroud, so I can use my existing shroud and not feel bad in having to chunk the ****. I have also flushed system and nada. It goes from 160-170 highway to 215-220 idle that too me is too hott for this old 283. Any suggestions? s anyone aware of any none shrouded electric fans?
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make sure your sender and gauge are compatible.

even though you flushed your system, you may have restricted flow in your radiator... particularly if you have the zig-zag core type.

make sure you're timing is set correctly.

make sure your belt is adjusted correctly

make sure that the impeller on your water pump is in good shape.

 

is it the stock manual fan? is this a new problem?
give us the whole story, most of the time you just fixed something and now it..............

 

pretty sure radiator not restricted timing recently set belt looks good and tight impellar looks good. It is the stock manual fan, and no not new problem, when i bought the truck it had no shroud whch caused it to heat up quick, so i got the shroud helped a lot but still creeps up from 160-170 highway to 210-220 city idle. It just does not seem as though the stock blades push enough air on idle. The fan sits nice and near the radiator and shroud centered.

 

Are you using a 50/50 coolant mix or just straight water?

Is the engine stock or has it been modified much?

Does your distributor have a vacuum advance, and does it and the centrifugal advance work properly?

Have you added an oil or transmission cooler in front of the radiator?

How close does the fan blade run to the radiator?

Does the truck have a heater core in it? If it does , try byp***ing it in case it's restricted.

With it running hot in your driveway set a big box fan in front of it and blow air thru the radiator and see if that brings the temp down. If you don't have a big enough fan try misting it with water from a hose or garden sprayer.

Have you recently changed the water pump, heads, intake manifokd, timing chain, etc...?

 

I have delt with a similar problem. It was too much clearance between the waterpump inpeller and the pump body. New pump, no problem.


Fritz

 

X2 what he asked

 

Even though you've checked your timing (with a light? to factory spec?), try bumping it up a little-loosen the clamp and listen to the engine while you rotate the distributor. If the idle speed picks up, tighten the clamp and try it there. Nothing to lose; cheap; quick.

 

My vote is on the water pump too. May not be flowing enough coolant at idle, but will flow enough with the increased rpms on the highway.

 

Use your hand to CAREFULLY feel diffrent areas of the radiator, like quadrants or sections. If you find a section that is cooler than the others, you have a core issue. At speeds the air through the core and the increased speed of the fan and pump keeps the temp down. At low speeds and idle there is where the problem will make itself known. Repair is to replace or recore the radiator.

 

Have you ended up somehow running a larger water pump pulley and/or a smaller crank pulley than the original setup?

 

if the truck heats up running down the road at high way speeds it is a water flow problem. if it heats up at idle it is an airflow problem. this is what i was taught 50 years ago as a teenager working in a garage has always held true tom

 

In my experience it 9 times out of ten the radiator. Flush it or get it recored and it should fix it. Take the cap off with the t-stat open and see if the coolant is moving rapidly. This is a good sign water pump is working. Also if you have removed the t-stat this could also cause a problem as the water doesn't stay in the radiator long enough to cool.

 

definatly an airflow issue...had the same problem on my 283 witha manual flex fan and shroud...switched to a electric fan and solved it...electric fan will pull more air at idle

 

I had this problem with my 283 in my '59 apache.....turned out to be a faulty heat riser....I gutted the damn thing plugged holes etc...and all is well now.

My 283 was not the factory motor....was a straight 6 so I dont now if the factory 283's had heat risers in them back in '58/'59

Valve in heat riser wasn't opening under low exhaust conditions(idle). Even after the motor warmed up. Valve would only under partial/full throttle

 

It's either low airflow or low coolant flow. As others have said, put a fan in front of it at idle to see if it cools it. Can you see the coolant flow into the radiator from the upper hose? Just like a fan, a water pump moves less at lower engine rpm.

 

...Which raises another question. Are you running a stock fan blade or is it one of them light weight, Flexi-Flyer, aftermarket blades???

 

This may sound really stupid, but I had a customer bring in a car that had the exact same problem, and after spending a ton of time new water pump, new radiator, and tons of other ****, I found out that he had put the thermostat in upside down. Just a stupid mistake that was hard learned.

 

Everyone has pointed you in the right direction, and the only thing I can add is to make sure the radiator hoses are'nt collapsing. They are made in layers, much like tires, and can/do separate, collapse, and restrict coolant flow. Thermostat, hoses, radiator, fan, crud in the block, radiator cap, the fan system, AND the water pump itself, are all suspect. Set the idle up a little more, and see if that has ANY effect. Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

Defective vacuum advance, ported instead of manifold vacuum to distributor, worn timing chain retarding the cam.

 

Thanks for all the responses. I too believe it is definetily an airflow issue as coolant is perfectly fine at highway speeds or any speed really as long as the car is moving lol. I currently have the stock fan will try to put in an electric fan next as I have not done any mods or have any of issues listed above. My real question was does anyone know where I can get an electric fan without a shroud so i can use my existing shroud that I had recently bought. Someone posted oreilly's $69 unshrouded electric fan, anyone else?

 

I believe that the fan should protrude half way out of the shroud to avoid a reverse vortex. Seems I read that somewhere and most that I have seen seem to be positioned in that exact way. Just a thought.

 

How much clearance do you have between the fan and radiator??? It shouldn't be no more than a inch and a half of clearance....

 

Once more: It won't cost 5 cents to try the timing thing. At any speed above idle your centrifugal advance is starting to work thus your timing is advanced-it doesn't overheat then, right?

 

I'd double check that timing too. If it's too retarded, or the vacuum advance isn't working (or ported wrong), you'll get over heating at idle too. Just nudge it forward a smidge, and see if that helps. (plus it's free to test)

 

May sound crazy, but I had a simular problem on a '53 buick, years ago. Ends up the fan, itself, was on backwards. Wasnt pulling enough air at idle, but was getting enough forced air at Hwy speed to cool it down. Go figure!

 

Stop with the electric fan idea! What size fan is on there now? How much clearance from blade tip to shroud? How far does fan sit inside shroud?

Fan should be 2/3 inside shroud, to avoid reverse vortex.
Fan blade tips should be fairly close to shroud.
Shroud should circle fan more than 50%. Not just a top finger saver thing.
Shroud should fit well to radiator and funnel all the air from the core to the fan.

 

+1 here.

 

Stop with the electric fan thing hahah I love it! I knew I would get such responses. Trust me I wish and will give it a few more shots on the timing deal and as far as the shroud and fan now I am 110% that it is centered and shroud covers fan just right.

 

Like someone else said, check and make sure you didn't put the fan on backwards.

Also, you keep saying its the stock mechanical fan... is this a 4-blade fan? If so, switch to the largest diameter 6 or 7 blade fan you can find.

-Brad