Chrysler Total-Contact Brakes - anyone know much about these?

I recall reading somewhere (I think Bruce Lancaster mentioned it in one of the F250/Lincoln/Buick brake threads somewhere) that the hot ticket in the '60s was Buick drums & Chrysler Total Contact brakes. This intrigued me, so I goggled them & found very little other than press release-type info "New for '57, Total Contact brakes!"

I decided I'd look on eBay & found a set of '57 Desoto brakes. The price was reasonable ($30 - I spend more than that on a piss up!), so I figured what the heck. Something to tinker with.

They showed up today & they look to be an interesting design. I really will have to figure out if I can use these easily as they're just so funky (even though no one will see them!).

In my limited research, it appears these were used on the (really) big MOPARs from '57-61 - some of the service data refer to them as the "3-Platform" brakes. The smaller MOPARS appear to use a similar, but smaller setup.

Anyone know anything about these? They appear that they should work quite well with dual wheel cylinders & rotating cams...

 

Yeah, the cam set-up is cool. These were considered good brakes for their day but you need to pay attention to set up and adjustment. Worn out, incorrect or mismatched brake hardware or components really messes with them. Getting correct, quality parts has sometimes been bit of a pain. I've taken apart some that were using wrong parts and they operated like it.

I've been advised not to combine Total Contact brakes with other type drum brakes in the same system as it becomes impossible to properly proportion them correctly. I don't know this first hand but it makes sense.

 

i have a similar set up on my 54 dodge... total nightmare. you have to get them really close with the cam eccentrics and then pray they dont slip position with tightening down the nuts that run through the backing plate. to make matters worse the rears are set on tapered hubs. so if they slip you have to brake out the hub puller again. then the issue of twin wheel cylinders is a pain too. you have to bleed uppers then lowers then uppers again, at least i did anyways.

the only shoes i could find for this set up were from NAPA and they had issues of the linings not wanting make a correct circle. in essence the linings were thick all the way from top to bottom as opposed to tapering (like stockers) on the ends. without that taper i couldnt get them to even let me set the drum back in place, i just plain ran out of inward adjustment. so i wound up having to file the lining on the ends. having to file asbestos is not good, im sure.

im looking forward to swapping them out to discs on the front and later drums on the back.

 

Mopar had this style of brake for YEARS...a lot of guys are miffed at their operation and have known people to SELL their car instead of tackling a brake job (this was years ago)...I dunno...I've never really had a problem working on this style of brake...

 

Got a picture in my 62 motors manual. I can scan it for you if you like. Look to be a fairly conventional twin leading shoe design with lots of self servo action dialed in.
Mart.
Pics added:

 

Needless to say if you had these on the front and standard early ford (non self servo) rear brakes the braking in reverse would be really ****.
Mart.

 

Hey,

Be sure that the return springs are new, and that the backing plates
have no ridges whatsoever, where the shoes make contact. Proper
adjustment can be problematical, but not beyond the scope of the
average mechanic.

 

Ernie,
i had EVERYTHING new or reconditioned on the front of my Dodge wagon,(1958 sierra wagon),to include new shoes that were "tru-arc ground" to match the curvature of the drums.
system set up AND adjusted by the book,to include the independent adjustment of each shoe.

they were the Best front brakes i ever had,as in a stock application.

HOWEVER,and this never failed!

one of those front brakes were going to lock up on you during the course of the day,(thankfully,usually at low speed),and it required you to back up to get it unlocked.

they were gone through by me and an older Mopar freak/type.
neither of us found anything amiss.

as i said,when they were acting right,they would stop on a dime ,and give you "nine cents change"!

i wound up changing to '76 dodge aspen/plymouth volare spindles,rotors,and master cylinder.

this swap was a no brainer,and gave the best of all possible scenario's.

hope this helps.
if you just GOTTA' have them,let me know,and i'll dig out the shop manual,and photocopy the whole brake section for ya'.

 

I have these brakes on my '59. I only had them on the front for the longest time too, and they still worked great once you have them adjusted right.

Never had a problem working on them... at least once I found the right hub puller that is. haha

 

Had these on a nice '63 plymouth, Some idiot adjusted them badly at a "Brake Shop" , they grabed, jerked right and I rolled the car. Stay Away from thes.

 

Chrysler bit the bullet and payed up for the bendix servo action brakes for the '62 model year. Why did they pay millions of dollars for the rights to a better braking system? BECAUSE THOSE BRAKES **** ***.

Other aspects of chrysler engineering are vastly ahead of their time, but the brakes sure as **** are not. Toss that **** in the trash and get some bendix brakes.

 

Doesn't seem to be much middle ground here - folks either love 'em or hate 'em & it seems more hate 'em than love 'em. They really don't look any different than many early British Fords - save the anchor plate.

These are Ford 100E brakes & typical of the type. (sorry for the big pic, it's not mine)

If I had to venture an UN-educated guess, I would say folks don't like 'em because they're unfamiliar with them. Face it, Bendix brakes have been around for ages, are on most p***enger cars/trucks, & everyone knows them.

We're creatures of habit & like to stay in our comfort zones mainly. That's why some guys (like me) prefer Holleys over Edelbrocks or Quadra-Jets & you'll hear just as ardent discussions for the others from folks with good experience on 'em.

Don't know what I'll do with them, but keep investigating them. I do love hearing the first hand info - good & bad - about them though, so keep it coming!

 

I never had a problem with 'em, and just did the deed on the '53 DeSoto in the drive.
Rear adjuster trick I use: Cut a slot in the adjuster bolt for a screwdriver, then you don't have to take the drum off if it needs adjustment, the fronts have a cotter key that can be used to turn them.
The rears on these cars are NOT self-servo, contrary to other belief, they are simply fixed anchor drum brakes, like so many other cars.
Adjust them as per factory, lockup is usually a mis-adjustment, leading to overheating and subsequent lockup.
The REAL trick brakes are the 'disc' brakes from the Imperial of the era - impossible to describe other than to say they are quite like Kinmonts.

Cosmo

 

Ernie, drop me a PM and I'll xerox you some info from an old book on adapting these world's greatest/worst brakes to early Ford...then if you stop posting suddenly we'll know they're no good!
I have NO personal experience with these--adjustment issues sound like early Ford--just gettem as close as you physically can.
I have seen several old articles claiming these to be the best pre-disc brakes around, and I have read that GM used them on certain road race Corvettes that had some form of factory backing or connection. Anybody know anything about this??

 

Ernie,
I know this post is from 2005...
did you end up using them?
I read as much as I could find.. and despite the bad press I'm gonna run them on my roadster. If you know of a set let me know I'm in need----->

I found a article in Rodding and Re Styling... and I love the design.
Seriously from a design standpoint they're genius.
I want to machine my spindles like in the R&R article to fit these and run them with the Buick drums...

just curious if any hambers have them adapted to ford round back spindles and if they're running them on a hot rod.

Let me know!
Thanks,
Tuck

 

Tuck, I don't have them on a hot rod, but just bought a '55 dodge with similar style to Ernies.

They are a pain to adjust... but.. Wheel cylinders are still available new, and I got a set of shoes from a local antique parts place. They have to be reshoed though, no one makes new ones, so don't throw away your cores. The disadvantage to them is that they don't stop in reverse as well as a normal set-up, since both shoes are set-up to be leading shoes.

I still haven't gotten mine adjusted and the manual doesn't help much since they expect you to have a special tool that mounts to the spindle. You can make a home made tool with some wheel bearings, a piece of exhaust pipe and a magnetic base dial indicator.

 

OK cool... Thanks Rev-
I should scan the adjustment info the have in the R&R article...
I would only run them in the front-
I have finned drums in the rear with 12" Poncho wagon backing plates- I wonder if having normal brakes in the rear would help with the reverse problem...

 

Tuck,

Still got 'em - never used 'em. Found some small parts for 'em, but never decided what to use them on...

They're sitting on a shelf in my shed buried at the back. I could probably be convinced to part with them. However, I leave for the UK Tuesday and life is simply too crazy right now getting ready for it to even pretend I'd be able to get them to the post office for ya...

Depending on your timeline, not sure when I'll be home next, but could probably do it then...

 

I may be a bit fuzzy on facts, it was back in Connecticut, the 50s, But I believe that a Mr. Roy Sanford was the inventor. He was affiliated with Raybestos....not sure if he was an employee or not. I do recall a VERY high HP GM engine on a dyno testing brakes for Boeing aircraft. Wide open throttle and stopping it with a single disc. Wish I had photos and/or a better memory for details.

 

Had them on my 57 Dodge. Didn't mess with them too much. The car nev er stopped the same way twice. It would pull in one direction or the other. So I switched to discs.
The old stuff is sitting on the junk pile if you want them.

 

Found a couple more articles, one describing function, one describing what seems fairly simple adaptation to Ford spindle (VERY badly written and illustrated, no illumination at all). There is some description in the mega brake article, now in tech, from Rod action. Details are shaky, but the basic adaptation is apparently pretty simple.
They have an odd double plate with moving section...do not confuse with regular lockheeds used on early fifties Mopars.
From a forgotten source, GM actually adapted them to Corvette racers with sprcial brake drums at one point, a factory adaptation for specific racecars, not any sort of cataloged use. This use, a last kick of drums in roadracing, seems like an interesting review of the things.

 

Bruce,
It looks like you just machine the spindle to fit the backing plate opening and then rotate them forward a tad to clear the bosses and re-drill the spindles.

They suggest running 59 Buick drums with this conversion.

Seems like a smart combination... the full contact brakes with finned Buick aluminum drums... the next best thing to disk brakes.

I'll scan and post the article I have- they have about six or eight pics and step by step instructions. Would be easier to understand with the parts in hand I'm sure... It looks like they used 59 up brakes.

INTERESTING...

they have a great adjusting chart in this mag too- showing how to adjust them and a trouble shooting guide...

Ernie I pm'd ya!

Tuck

 

cool can't wait to see the adjusting guide. I've tried twice now and they still seem weak.

 

It's really a neat system - in theory, they should work well. I suspect much of the disappointment with these systems are similar to the mechanical brake "challenges" - worn parts, mis-adjusted, and lack of familiarity - bet if you get all that sorted, it would work well.

Many of the british cars used a similar system for years and years...who knows, maybe it was Lucas designed?!!

 

That mean when you step on the brakes, the brake lights come on and everything else shuts off?

 

Dont' know if the 55 dodge 1/2 tons used them but my pickup had 2 wheel cylinders per wheel....twice as much chance for wheel cylinder leaks and they did leak.
Couldn't get stopped when a almost new 67 LeMans stopped in front of me in Portland Ore. traffic one day. I had Jangleguy [my brother] with me and we piled into the back of that pontiac. Didn't hurt the pontiac and only bowed the front fender out a little, thank God.....I hated those brakes.

 

1959 Article in Rodding and Restyling.

 

The next issue has a very short article on Ford spindle use.

 

I have this setup on my Imperial. So far I am having nothing but trouble and need some experienced help.

After installing new brake lines, master and booster. I couldn't get a solid pedal. I thought maybe I needed to add a residual valve. After I installed the valve the pedal is great but the shoes won't release. I took out the line going into the master and the shoes were still stuck. So its got to be a problem in each drum but I'm baffled at what it could be.

This dog has me scratching my head pretty hard.

 

I'm going to bring this up from the dead... again.

I still think about these brakes a lot... I feel like I need to get my hands on a set and try them with the Buick drums- I think most of the problems stem from getting them adjusted right from what I've read.

Anybody have a pair of these brakes collecting dust?

Tuck