60'-70's Vintage Oval Track Modifieds

For what it's worth (maybe nothing) to the torsion bar discussion:

In mid-'71, Art Barry built up a new coupe "for" Ed Flemke to drive. It had torsion bars and, AIUI, they thought at the time that it was perhaps the first Modified (or at least the first that they knew of) to use them.
The crew told me then that its first-ever race had been the previous week, at a big show at somewhere like Shangri-La. They said that the field had comprised the best of the best (Hendrick, Evans, Stevens, DeSarro, et al), and that, although it was just out-of-the-box, they'd "never seen, against a strong field, one car and driver that was so much quicker than the rest".
Unfortunately, on that first night, a slower car caused a big shunt, and the new machine became a mess.

 

Check out my post #9605. You verified what I thought:

<HR style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #e5e5e5; COLOR: #e5e5e5" SIZE=1> <!-- / icon and ***le --><!-- message -->
Quote:
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset" cl***=alt2>Originally Posted by RAF
I think the owner of this coupe was a man named Mazza and I think it was built by Freddy Rosner but not positive. Not sure what track this was taken at.
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That might be AirBorn Park in Plattsburgh,NY.

That looks like Charlie Trombley in the 5 7/8 car behind him.

 

As I mentioned before, I was in Army Basic Training with Geoff in the fall of 1970. We both had low draft lottery numbers. Mine was 17.

Not sure about '69, but was for sure running the #99 Valiant in '70.

He designed and built his entire suspension (entire car). He then gave Dutch a copy of the plans. Dutch copied it and because he was more well known, initially received credit for it. Eventually history has corrected its self.

Geoff also tried independent rear suspension. The summer of '71 I went to his shop and he showed me the twisted splines on the half shafts. With that failed experiment behind him he went with (or back to) a sprint car (champ car) style open tube rear. It was one of the first I ever saw under an oval track modified. This is the same rear that broke while he was leading the very last RoC Langhorne race.



Us dirt guys ran the Firestone Rain tires that were treaded. We added more grooves and sipes. I remember there was a No Dot and a #29 compound. There might have been another, maybe a #30.

That's when the guys figured out the way to win was a fresh pair of rear tires for the feature everytime out. Then ya' ran the feature tires in the following weeks heat race. So, to run up front ya' spent about $200 every race for tires. Needless to say, for guys like myself, that wasn't gonna' happen.

There was one Firestone dirt tire that was named and molded into the sidewall from the factory called "A BIG JELONEY". And, it was BIG. Goodyear got into the oval track tire business in the mid-70s. It was a tire war between M&H, Firestone and GoodYear for awhile. I don't remember Hoosier or McCreary doin' much back then.

 

Well Geoff Uncle had a lot to do with building the 99 Valient AND Brian Osgoods 09 Camaro/ Corvair those two ch***is

Geoff 1st race at Langhorne in TK McLean's 99 coupe then built the Valient the next year.

KT tell them where the cell was in the 1st tube car.

 

From the book on Bugsy. Clayton Mitchell had a torsion bar front end on the car Ray Hendrick drove for him and Jack Tant. Lenny Boehler copied it an ran it in 1969 in Ole Blue. So it was out in 69 or earlier.

Barry

 

Genuine question: If it was out on two very quick cars, in '69 or sooner at least on the front, why did it take people awhile to adopt it? Was it hard to get right, hard to adjust from track to track, more expensive, more vulnerable to crash damage?
When did people start to use rear torsion bars?

 

I'm not "kt", but if I remember correctly, it was in the "middle" of the car, on the right side of the cage. This was done so as the fuel was consumed, the f/r weight distribution wasn't affected, but the left side percentage increased.

 

troyer had a fuel cell to the right of car around 1976-77

 

Although I was only a teenager back then, and didn't have too much exposure to the cars other than being a spectator at the track, I'll venture a guess... For one, I have a feeling that "human nature" took over, and a lot of guys thought that the "wide a**ed tires" were just a p***ing fad, so they took a wait and see at***ude toward the independent front ends. Secondly, modified racing was still a relatively "low buck" deal, and putting an entire new front end on a car was a big expense.

What still puzzles me, however, is why supermodifieds still run a straight axle. I know that ISMA like to "contain" car costs, so maybe it's simply a rules deal. As many of us know, Troyer Engineering built an independently sprung super in the early 80s, but it never went beyond the one car. I seem to recall that the car was compe***ive. Rules, maybe?

 

From the ISMA rulebook. If you go down a ways, it looks like they are still legal. Too much to read for me. Page 4 rule #27
http://www.ismasupers.com/2011-13_ ISMA_Rulebook_redcopy.pdf

 

Back in the 60's i believe. Eddie Flemke ran a coupe that was black with a t-bird motor that was lettered as the $ sign car. Also had it's twin lettered with the cent sign, that was the only way to tell the difference was the sign on it! Ran at Utica Rome Speedway when it was paved. Just wondered if anyone else remembered those two cars and had any pics?

Doug

 

On this thread there are several of both the $ and the Cent Sign. (Yes, they would be a**** 5700 separate posts. )
I don't recall the $ being black. I've got images of it in yellow, in blue and in primer (perhaps the latter would be what you recall as being black). I don't remember hearing about a T-bird engine, either. Those cars got the job done because they were light, not because they were powerful.
DennyZ will certainly know the answer to your query about a black car with a Ford motor, and a heck of a lot more.
For the Cent Sign, I've got images of it in reddish-brown and in blue, with 3 different kinds of logos on the side.
(There are a few images on this thread of a blue "Cent Sign" coupe, but the car in those was not Ed's. That car came along some years later, and was campaigned by someone else, who just chose the same identifier.)
I've got to turn in now but, if you have no luck, tom'w I'll post some images of each here. In the meantime, try Google: if you dig, you'll find a lot of interesting stuff.
Finally, you seem to have missed out on the % !

 

Wildchild, In the Eastern Bandit Days, at least when I was there (1961 thru 1964) the dollar sign that Eddie drove was blue (under the lights at night it could have appeared black) sometimes there were blotches of dark gray primer (battle scars) but it was blue and chevy powered. The blue dollar sign was actually owned by John Steiger. Later Eddie built his own car, the cent sign that was also chevy powered and at various times could be yellow, blue or gray primer.
At a later time Eddie drove for Garuti Bros several times and that car could have been Ford powered but the number would have been either 14 or 28.

Let's see if I can attach a picture that someone just sent me. Denny Z

PS....Hold the press....guess what, the picture I'm trying to post is Eddie's car the one that I think later became the cent sign but in the picture it"s the dollar sign.

Save0001.JPG Denny Z

 

Thanks for your replys! What I remember was the night that eddie drove the $ sign car and charland drove the cent sign car at Utica Rome. I don't remember who won. But they both looked identical right down to the chrome aircleaner and chrome valve covers!! They were beautiful cars! At the time Charlands normal ride was the white #3 coupe and at the time my favorite driver.

Doug

 

Denny,

You have a PM.

Thanks.

 

Hey Doug,you guys are not still racing that Homestead go-cart track I hope.No reason for a sprint car to be there.I met you in 2000, I owned Wayne Reutimann's 00! Need you back at Oswego in a super-mod.Back in the good old days you were the child at Oswego,since when did you become WILD???
Rod

 

Heres one of the $ cars at westhampton New York, They used to race on friday nights.

 

Sorry wrong Doug!! But I do know the "Young One"(Doug Heveron)!! He use to race under my flags in the sprintcars down here in Florida with the TBARA series. Him and his brother and I have talked about racing in and around n.y. at about every race. Don't know what he's up to now. But I'm still flagging Sprintcars down here. Was once told that I can't quit I'll have to just fade away!!!

Doug

 

I saw Eddie in this car as a kid, but I can't remember the track. Maybe it was Albany-Saratoga, but I think this car pre-dated that. I do remember the cent sign car too. I'm pretty sure that was at A/S Speedway.

Look at the multiple carbs on the engine with long stacks .

Thar car needs to be replicated. Everything is perfect, right doen to the stock wide-5 Ford hub on the LF. Back then I remember the RF got the safety hub. The LF was along for the ride .

 

Johnnyone, That's the car that John Steiger owned. I drove it one night at Man***as VA and fliped it. Denny Z

 

Doug,sorry about that but sure sounded like Doug Heveron to me.Is St Augustine track still active? I remember 2001 when we went there to run a sprint car show but some special late model show 200 laps took over the show.Curfew was 12a.m. and all night they kept saying were are going to run the sprints.Time ran out,never got to run.They started give pit p*** money back,you know the wrist bands. Guys were picking the barrels for wrist bands until they got wise.Re they still running the go-cart track at Homestead in the TBARA? That track is totally nasty. Hope the Young One would come back just one to Oswego just to pump up the crowd.Car counts and fans are running short.
Rod

 

Doug,one more thing. The UTICA ROME BOOK should be out by June of this year.I worked with Bones ,Doug Zupan,and Lew Boyd Coastal 181 with shots of Utica_Rome. I have heard that only 1500 copies are going to print get your request in early.Contat Coastal 181. phone 1-877-907-8181 or www.coastal181.com.
Rod

 

I just found this car. It raced through the 50's and early 60s in northern NJ and in the Hudson Valley.

 

Dirtmodcar31, Hey no problem ! As for St.Augustine Speedway,it's still here,last I heard they have dug up the asphalt and limerock, but haven't changed anything else stands, walls, fence, and concession stands are still there. Sorry that go-kart track is now a parking lot for a Lowes hardware store. At least I got to flag there before the took it down.

Doug

 

Doug,

These might interest you:



( both from http://www.razcar.com/models/EdFlemke.php?v=59078 )

In different guises:

(photo courtesy Donn Cote)


(photo courtesy Jerry Fascione)

As mentioned, the "%", also raced by Eddie:


In those same shows with Eddie, you also would have seen this young man, who contributes to this thread as "DennyZ":

(Johnny Grady photo)

 

Hey thanks New Britain!! Utica Rome was fun as a kid, My dad went to school with **** Waterman and **** Clark way back when!! I didn't reallize that UR was only a 1/4 mile track sure looked big to alittle kid!!!!

Doug

 

Not to get you fellas off topic,but here's a few shots of Corey,Wimble,& a couple of louie that I haven't yet seen on this site.

 

Would that be "**** Clark" the driver or "**** Clark" the American Bandstand dude (who also comes from that area)?

 

The driver!! Talked to my dad about an hour ago ,(he's 80) he say's he was more interested in **** Clarks sister!!Say's she is/was a looker! They lived in the Madison/Bouckville area (my dad did) I was a kid in Oriskany Falls N.Y. Later moved near Auburn N.Y. visited Weedsport Speedway And Rolling Wheels alot!!

Doug