thanks Felpro! SBF intake gasket nightmare.

I don't think it is realistic to expect every phone tech to be more familiar with your motor than you are. Look at how gasket catalogs are set up. You need to know what you have to get the right stuff.

I think we all learned something from this regardless, good info.

 

Those questions were asked to him also but he never answered me. I asked in earlier posts, did Fel-Pro give any other gasket selection options for him to try ? He never answered that..

We dont know if Fel-Pro asked for the casting #'s or not.. Da Tinman needs to answer that question... If they did, what was the outcome?

Agreed, they can only help based off the info you give them.. you give them wrong info then its your problem, not the company

I'm not here to fight, or point fingers. Just simply stating the facts. He was wrong on his year, thats all. He shouldn't have posted about a company being wrong and providing no help when that wasn't the case. Simply put. He said he got the correct gaskets but never said what that part # was or how he came up with the correct # but only said " the part store is taking care of me"
My guess is Fel-Pro told him to try a different #, he didn't think it would work and argued with them, then ordered it anyway, in the meantime started this thread, then got the ones suggested and WOW, they did work... Thats why we haven't heard back from him

 

1250 gasket is what fixed it.

casting numbers on ford heads are on the bottom and hard to read when installed, also locating them between the pushrods makes it even more fun.

If you want casting numbers and such, send me a head gasket set and the time to tear them back off, and I'll givem to ya.

the date on the top of the head says 8E25, april 25 78,, too many things not making any sense with this deal.

A local ford guy looked at the heads after they were installed and says they were 77-80 ford truck heads, and thats what I ordered gaskets for. (dont give me any crap about that either, you are the SBFKing and you incorrectly id'ed the heads as 76, hard to be 76 heads when they were cast in 78)

as for the difference in teh water port holes on the gaskets you displayed, I was working off pics from teh auto parts store's website. the size of the pics makes it a guess as to port size.

You guys should include accurate measurements in your books/catalogs so those of us without the gaskets in stock can have access to them without having to order a smathering of gaskets.

I apologize for any inconvience.

 

So did Fel-Pro suggest the 1250 gaskets when you called or not?

Actually, that 8 "can" be a 1968

the "E" is not April, its May

but you are right on the 25th day

 

no, not on the first call. that was found by ordering a smathering of gaskets and picking the one that fit.

after I had the proper gasket you(?) offered up the 1250 as a possible cure, by then we had it figured out.

 

I used a Victor head gasket set it came with both early small port and late large port intake gaskets.I needed the small port gaskets for the 289 Hi-Po heads on my 302.

 

So there was more than 1 call?

More just keeps coming out of this.... hmmmmm

I think the title needs to be rephrased on this topic.
You say you werent suggested that on the first call, so you were suggested that on another? Which means Fel-pro did help you ID which gasket would work?

 

I see the light....

 

now you know what guys that work in the parts stores deal with day in and day out

 

As someone who has worked in customer service for 30 years I can tattoo the detailed instructions I give out on the customers hands and light it up with a blinking neon light and some customers still get it wrong.

The customer is not always right and there is ALWAYS another side of the story.

Remember the famous quote when deciphering out these stories...it's not what they tell you but sometimes more importantly what they didn't tell you.

 

So as usual you have to look at the parts you buy and see if they actually fit your application, especially when you're working on something old that you don't really know for sure exactly what it is. Don't count on what the book says, don't count on what the guy who sold you the motor told you. Check it out for yourself.

Thanks for the lesson.

 

Thank you...

The simple start of this thread is "Defamation" againt Fel-Pro (if you dont know what that means, look it up ) which technically is illegal. The facts were not put out by the poster and all the facts still dont seem to be out because every post by the poster, we learn something new that was kept out originally

 

So you're not here to point fingers??????

 

are you the guy I talked to on the phone the second call?

Yea I called twice, wasnt given that much pertinant info on the first call.
He was more interested in what specifically about the gasket didnt fit.

I tried to take him to the pic on my photobucket but it seems he couldnt operate a search on photobucket, did not understand that _ is a symbol and not a word (underscore) and couldnt find it.

thats when I posted this up. then I called you (If it was you) and pointed you to this thread so I wouldnt have to walk another guy thru all the steps to find it.

yes that gasket was suggested after we had if figured out.

He did point me at the other 90103-1 gasket but by the pics and without measurements it looked the same size front to back and shorter top to bottom. I didnt argue with him about whether it would work or not.
again, you have access with the dimensions, we as customers do not.

My main thoughts on the first call was to find out if it were possible for the gasket to have been printed on the wrong side as it sorta fit upside down.

the reason for the second call was inform you that we had found a solution and to point you at this thread where the pics could be openly discussed without having to guess what I or you were talking about.

I've never called into question the quality of the gasket, just how its marked/cataloged and possible fitment issues.

now since you are here and an expert, are you going to hang around and provide us with your knowledge or are you just here to put words in my mouth?

as for defamation,, where? I have not called you any names, nor have I run your company into the ground, I did question your customer service and how you catalog/sell your parts.

How are you to know that there might be a fitment issue with your gaskets if you stonewall and are for the most part unwilling to listen to customer feedback on the phone?

 

I learned a lot from this thread...

Ford likes to make stuff almost fit ( but I already knew that )

And if there is a problem, try to find the sollution without the help of Felpro's reprisentatives.

 

This thread has gone to far.....

The original poster was incorrect from the beginning and decided to slander or "Defamate" a company.

This thread needs to be deleted

 

I've never spoken to you, I'm just a Ford guy

You said he was more interested in what didn't fit? Sounds like he was trying to help by figuring out your problem.

So you were suggested the MS90103-1 but "thought" they wouldn't fit based on pictures? I don't have access to deminsions either, I grabbed them off my self and measured them.

I'll help with any Ford issues where the facts need to be known.

 

why delete this thread? if someone reads the entire content it could help someone in the future prevent from replicating the same issue. when i was working for a major ford rem. co. back in the 80's and shipping out 128 motors per day (yeah day!) my boss was very anul about the correct gasket set being shipped with the motor. now i know why i had my ass chewed one day for sending out the wrong gasket set, and here i thought all these years he was just having a bad day, nope i fucked up!!!

 

Wow,charm school was closed the day you applied?
I really don't think that response was called for.

 

ONE ADAM 12 SEE THE MAN! BE ADVISED KNIVES AND CHAINS..... HAHAHAHA!you do some cool shit in metal thats for sure! those suicide doors on that chopped ford truck rock.

 

yeah sorta,, since the last one got deleted, I'll be a bit nicer,, yeah I was an @$$hole, it happens Sorry.

I'm wondering what and why sbfking is even here, he has posted an intro, but other than that it would seem his only reason for being here is to make comments in this thread. If thats the case that would kinda make him a stalker.

If he stays around to impart more of his overwhelming knowledge of the small block ford and how gaskets work then we all win.

am I the only one thinking that he worked for felpro? it would seem by his words, actions and (gasp) knowledge of the product that he did. If he did that in my eyes would be helpful, as both sides of the issue have the pics in front of them.

Since he doesnt work for them his insight is helpful but not going to help resolve my issue.

I apologize for the deleted post, it was out of line and while I still feel the same about what I said, I shouldnt have posted it.

there has been nothing even close to slander or defemation in this thread, no where have I said anything derogetory about the product or the company that makes it.

It is a fine quality product, it however did not fit my application that it was advertised to fit.

customer service wasnt that helpful as he/they coudnt find the pics.

Is there a possiblity of some problem with the heads not being what they are supposed to be,, I dont know. However if you look at what ford was doing when switching over to the roller cams it would seem a possibilty.

in any event, its fixed now and thats all that matters in the end.

 

8E25, May 25 1968- and the heads are obviously earlier small water port. Most of the early small-block heads have their engine size cast in fairly large numbers, under the valve covers in plain sight- 289, 302, 351 etc.
Applications for the gaskets you bought are below; NOT "any and all 289, 302, 351 windsor motors".
You misidentified your heads and bought the wrong gaskets. Get over it. The extent you're going to here to NOT admit you made a mistake and shift the blame to others probably shows why you and the Felpro reps didn't "hit it off", and ended up turning a molehill into a dramafest- again, get over it, and let this ill-conceived thread die


<table class="app"><tbody><tr><td class="app-labels">Make</td><td class="app-midmargin">
</td><td class="app-data">FORD</td></tr><tr><td class="app-labels">Engine Type</td><td class="app-midmargin">
</td><td class="app-data">V8</td></tr><tr><td class="app-labels">Liter</td><td class="app-midmargin">
</td><td class="app-data">5.0</td></tr><tr><td class="app-labels">CID</td><td class="app-midmargin">
</td><td class="app-data">302</td></tr><tr><td class="app-labels">Engine Size</td><td class="app-midmargin">
</td><td class="app-data">5.0L/302</td></tr><tr><td class="app-labels">Beginning Year</td><td class="app-midmargin">
</td><td class="app-data">1977</td></tr><tr><td class="app-labels">Ending Year</td><td class="app-midmargin">
</td><td class="app-data">1985</td></tr><tr><td class="app-labels">Engine Family</td><td class="app-midmargin">
</td><td class="app-data">Ford small block Windsor</td></tr><tr><td class="app-labels">Application Notes</td><td class="app-midmargin">
</td><td class="app-data">Will not fit 1984 and later truck applications.</td></tr><tr class="spacer"><td colspan="3">
</td></tr></tbody></table><table class="app"><tbody><tr class="spacer"><td colspan="3">
</td></tr><tr><td class="app-labels">Make</td><td class="app-midmargin">
</td><td class="app-data">FORD</td></tr><tr><td class="app-labels">Engine Type</td><td class="app-midmargin">
</td><td class="app-data">V8</td></tr><tr><td class="app-labels">Liter</td><td class="app-midmargin">
</td><td class="app-data">5.8</td></tr><tr><td class="app-labels">CID</td><td class="app-midmargin">
</td><td class="app-data">351</td></tr><tr><td class="app-labels">Engine Size</td><td class="app-midmargin">
</td><td class="app-data">5.8L/351</td></tr><tr><td class="app-labels">Beginning Year</td><td class="app-midmargin">
</td><td class="app-data">1975</td></tr><tr><td class="app-labels">Ending Year</td><td class="app-midmargin">
</td><td class="app-data">1991</td></tr><tr><td class="app-labels">Engine Family</td><td class="app-midmargin">
</td><td class="app-data">Ford small block Windsor</td></tr><tr><td class="app-labels">Application Notes</td><td class="app-midmargin">
</td><td class="app-data">Fits passenger car applications.</td></tr><tr class="spacer"><td colspan="3">
</td></tr></tbody></table><table class="app"><tbody><tr class="spacer"><td colspan="3">
</td></tr><tr><td class="app-labels">Make</td><td class="app-midmargin">
</td><td class="app-data">FORD</td></tr><tr><td class="app-labels">Engine Type</td><td class="app-midmargin">
</td><td class="app-data">V8</td></tr><tr><td class="app-labels">Liter</td><td class="app-midmargin">
</td><td class="app-data">5.8</td></tr><tr><td class="app-labels">CID</td><td class="app-midmargin">
</td><td class="app-data">351</td></tr><tr><td class="app-labels">Engine Size</td><td class="app-midmargin">
</td><td class="app-data">5.8L/351</td></tr><tr><td class="app-labels">Beginning Year</td><td class="app-midmargin">
</td><td class="app-data">1975</td></tr><tr><td class="app-labels">Ending Year</td><td class="app-midmargin">
</td><td class="app-data">1997</td></tr><tr><td class="app-labels">Engine Family</td><td class="app-midmargin">
</td><td class="app-data">Ford small block Windsor</td></tr><tr><td class="app-labels">Application Notes</td><td class="app-midmargin">
</td><td class="app-data">Fits Truck applications.</td></tr></tbody></table>

 

I may very well have made a mistake, havent and wont deny it, just was a little put off by the customer service guys.

One mistake was not looking closer at the gasket around the water ports, wont happen again.

as for the mis id,, dunno thats not my feild of expertise. I got a buddy that gave me his best guess and thats what I ran with. Call customer service to find out what the issue was and got nowhere. they too it seems missed the correct id on the heads, as did sbfking here.

by your list those gaskets should fit every one of the wrong Id's.

it would suprise the crap out of me if these heads were of 60 vintage, but stranger things have happened.

anyway, its fixed and I'm on to other issues.

 

Felpro troll? Would that be a "Feltroll" or a "Trollpro"? Da Tinman wasn't defaming Felpro, that was very clear from his initial post, he was complaining because the customer service he received was unhelpful, at best. Calling his post defamatory borders on vitriolic, and it puts yourself in a bad color, Mr. SBFking. Clearly you aren't too familiar with the Hamb. Stick around and learn, you might find out what a lot of us have, that this place is full of folks who are not only very knowledgeable, but generous and caring also, Da Tinman being one of the same.

 

To add to the bull shi .I orderd week ago from Summit, full engine kit and got 2 intake gaskets large and small.

 

I think one of the things that has bothered me the most in this whole dramatic thread is the fact that SBFking demands answers to his questions, yet won't answer the simple question of does (or did) he work for Fel Pro.
He also is a little arrogant about wanting to discuss his vast knowledge that he claims to posses, but hasn't posted anything that would come close to suggesting where he might have gained that knowledge. How can anyone believe what you say or offer if you won't explain a little about your background?

I also think the OP needs to find out "for sure" which heads he has before he blames Fel Pro for bad catalog listings - it seems that still has to be determined .... If you just pull a valve cover, you will find the casting number, which will be something like C8ZZ-A for instance (if they are 78 Heads they will be D8OE type number)

 

This thread has been helpful, despite a tad of friction. Most of us will be more cautious when installing parts, be they gaskets or something else. And the friction? Well, if it weren’t for that, we would forget the lesson much sooner I think, so everything can have a bright side can’t it?

I suspect that when Da Tinman originally installed the gaskets he was very tired or distracted. (A shapely lass strolling near in short shorts?) Otherwise, he would have noted the mismatch at the time (he is a craftsman, we all know that.)

Anyway, that’s the way it has been for me. Usually over-tired. (I don’t recall anyone in short shorts.) Usually working too late, or just frustrated about something. And when the booboo showed up, I wanted to blame someone else… someone… anyone…, but when I calmed and looked in the mirror, I knew who the real culprit was.

Thanks for sharing Da Tinman. Your experience reminds us to be more aware. And thanks for your new-and-improved evaluation of the events. That too, is a lesson for us. Even for an old fart like me.

 

Just to help clarify the casting #'s, a C8 number isn't necessarily a 1968 part, it designates the model year of the vehicle it was designed for, in this case '68 which was when the 302 came out. That makes it possible to have a C8 part with a 1967 date code, as the model year and calendar year are not the same, and '68 cars were in production in mid-'67. The casting # stays the same until a change is made in the basic casting (a revision), and at that point a new casting # is generated reflecting the change. Same with the D8OE number used as an example, designed for the '78 model year, and probably, but not necessarily, put into production in '77. The "O" designates that it was designed for the midsize Fairlane line, A is full size, Galaxie etc., Z is Mustang, T truck, etc. The suffix (as in "-A") designates exactly which casting it is, as the second part of the casting number defines what type of part, 6090 is a cylinder head, 6015 is a block, 9425 is an intake manifold, etc. An example is a C8OE 6090-N, otherwise known as the 428 Cobra Jet head- 1968, designed for Fairlane line, cylinder head, and the -N defines the particular 428CJ casting. Another is a C2SE 6090-B head, which came on a 406- but also on a rare '62 M-code 390-340hp 3-deuce T-Bird, which came out before the mid-year introduction of the 406- so it has the "S" line designation of the Thunderbird line, as it was originally designed for the Bird, and then also used on the 406 later