I don't know who the con man was that came up with the $1,000 and up capacitance testers but he made some money. Many places who use them have batteries that test fine but won't start a car. A $50 load tester confirms that it's the battery but the manufacturer only accepts the capacitance test. For the home shop, you're better off buying a new battery than shelling out money for an expensive tester.
Wow Iam glad I found this thread. Lots of good info going back and forth, I myself have had some badluck with optima red tops, Honestly though I may have expected too much from the battery itself. You know how WE all like to push our stuff to the limit when we have that fancy top o the line stuff. What Im gettin at is the expectation of these units where we are hearing the great stories of when " I left the key on for a month and it still worked!" sorta thing. After my "badluck" I went with the excide version of the optima and will say I had great luck with the one I bought. Hell I got it in 01 and just replaced it last month. I could not get another one like it because Excide is no longer I guess? So I bought another red top optima. Thinking back to my "badluck" I have to say it was really the way I was pushing the batterys, 4x4 days with winches and creekside partys all night long with the stereo goin......goodtimes. Optimajim sounds like you are stand up guy, and care for the products you work with, that is good to hear because it is almost lost here in this world, hopefully there is followthrough on what you posted to some of the guys here . Not saying you made any promises or anything but the assistance if any through these types of channels says alot.Good on you. This thread was a good read,and hell I learned a little more about these units witch is always a plus. Now to my long winded point, we cant always bash products that cant hold up to the extreme stuff we put them through especially when they were not designed for some of that abuse. ( sitting in cars for 6-8 months out of the year with no regular use.) I do know that most of the guys that were posting are not in this category (not pointing any fingers either) just saying really think about how some of failures are occuring. Are we expecting too much from these batteries? I am giving them another chance. So we will see how much I get out of it, Hopefully it lasts a long life.......... Thanks for putting up with my long rant.
I really appreciate the comments and feedback guys. Engine man, many of the bad batteries returned to us are just deeply-discharged, so the simple (although sometimes, inconvenient) act of fully-recharging a battery before load-testing it will often solve the problem. We market our batteries to enthusiasts, who do tend to be harder on their batteries (actively or passively) than a typical econobox commuter and we understand the level of expectation for our products is higher, whether those expectations are realistic or not. MEDDLER1, you raise a good point about winching in off-road applications. One of the toughest messages for me to deliver is that our Redtops are not designed or warrantied for deep-cycle applications, including winching. That doesn't mean that thousands of them haven't been used successfully in those applications for many years, but that any deep-cycle application should have a battery designed for deep-cycle use and RedTops are SLI (starting/lighting/ignition) batteries. It seems as if a lot of people shopping for batteries in off-road applications get fixated on cranking amps, when they should be more concerned with finding a battery designed for deep-cycle use with good reserve capacity, that meets or exceeds the cranking amps needed for their engine. I know many of you have watched this before, but the Sultan of Michigan video is one of my favorites, because it shows that even people who can afford to buy a new battery every day would rather take the time to properly-maintain the batteries they have. Many battery issues can be traced back to a parasitic draw, like wrenchin hobo described. We even created this YouTube video, which explains how to measure and find a parasitic draw. I know wrenchin hobo mentioned a 125-milliamps draw in a Mercedes, but even if your vehicle only had a 50-milliamp draw, it is discharging a battery at a rate of 1.2 amps (.050 x 24 hours) per day. If the battery Capacity rating is 44 amps, this means the battery will be dead (0% state of charge), if it sits for 36.6 days (44/1.2) without any charge going to the battery. These calculations assume the battery is fully-charged when it is parked (most are not) and does not take into consideration climate, which can shorten (heat) or lengthen (moderate temps) these timeframes. It should be noted that different vehicles will require a different minimum voltage to start, which probably is something above 0% state of charge. Using these numbers, if this vehicle only drew 25 milliamps, it could sit for about 73 days before the battery died. If it was drawing 125 milliamps, the battery could be dead in about two weeks. It's also worth mentioning that even if a vehicle does not sit long enough to completely discharge the battery (for example, two weeks in the above 50 milliamp calculation), this repeated partial discharge, and the sulfation that will be caused by the battery resting in a discharged state, will cause long term reductions in performance and life. This is why we emphasize the importance of maintaining at least 12.4 volts and recommend a maintenance charger for any vehicle that is not used regularly. Jim McIlvaine eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc. www.facebook.com/optimabatteries
It would take a lot to turn me against Optima batteries. I've had nothing but good luck with them for about 10 years. I run a 6 volt red Optima in my 51 GMC w/302 and original positive ground electrical system; my '53 GMC has a 12v yellow top; I have a 12v red top in a 20 yr old Yamaha G9 gas golf cart that has provided over 5 years of flawless battery service in a very demanding intermittent use cycle; I have a red top in a smart car that is not properly vented to atmosphere (I've been warned) due to a drawback in the car's design; and I have pairs of them two diesel pickups-one pair is now 6 yrs of service (red top) and the newer pair (yellow top) are at about a year. I've NEVER had an Optima fail. I've left lights on and drained them and recharged them; I've used them jump other vehicles and I just have never seen any of the battery service hell you guys are reporting in this thread. If count them all up, I currently have 9 Optima batteries in my fleet at this point and won't hesitate to replace any battery that fails with another one (or two where required). I'm an Optima man. Your results may differ, but my experience has been flawless. I guess that I'm due for a problem but it won't stop me from diving back in on another Optima.
Used our first redtop Optima in 1998 in our 1 ton diesel parts hauler. The truck requires 2 batteries. Had one battery go bad about 3 years later . Replacing only one battery seemed kinda half assed so, we replaced both & we kept the good one as a spare for our other old rides... that spare battery lasted about 6 years... pretty good considering it was stored on a trickle charger & rotated through our old truck fleet whenever we fired one up . Living in the middle of the Arizona desert is hard on any battery & we still run Optima red tops in our diesel truck & have learned to switch them out every 3 years & save the old ones to be used on the old rides. We are still getting an average of 3 additional years out of the Optimas after we remove them from the diesel parts hauler. We still can't figure out why we get as little as 3 years & as much as 6 years of service outta the pair of batteries that were installed in the same diesel truck at the same time. While the Optima batteries may not be as reliable as the batteries used on the Space Shuttle... their sealed design is superior to traditional lead acid batteries that leak & gas all over our rides & rot them out. It is common to have to replace the battery cables & even the battery trays everytime you put in a traditional lead acid battery because they gas & turn the cable ends to mush or leak acid & destroy the trays,inner fenders & floorboards. Our 14 year old diesel hauler has never had anything but Optimas in it & the original battery cables are still shiny new & the battery trays are still like new. It would be nice if the Optima dealers stood behind the product better. If a guy steps up to the plate & buys one of these high priced things.... he expects it to work & expects that the guarantee will be honored. Last ones we bought off the shelf had a date stamp almost a year old. That already starts you off at a handicap if you have to bring it back for warranty. Every time you bring them a dead battery... they squirm like snakes trying to figure out a way to not stand behind the warranty by using some kinda convoluted "pro rate" system that is designed to screw you . Your mileage may vary.
Things change...never for the best. I always used Diehard batteries...the first one last 12 years! The second one lasted 4 years... the 3rd lasted 2 years. Same deal with my Harley but with Metzler tires. I used to get 12,000 miles on a rear tire (2000 Softail). Now, at 7,000 miles they are wearing uneven as if I never balanced them. The reason.... their no longer made in Germany, their made in South America! Just like a women....They start out being Reliable, but they finish up Unreliable!
I have used and sold Optima for many years and it is very rare to have to replace one for a customer. The Optima SC34U is the only battery I have in stock. In my experience, the people that have problems with automotive batteries in general have the following in common: 1. vehicle sits for long periods of time 2. vehicle has some kind of current draw on it(computer, radio, alarm, gps, miswired relay, etc) 3. battery is left connected to electrical system without maintainer 4. maintainer is too small for current draw 5. alternator problem On any modern, computer controlled car, a battery will not last longer than a week or two without use. There are too many electronic items drawing current 24/7. Starting a car "every few weeks" is not going to keep a battery charged. I keep my '98 Cobra on a Deltran Battery Tender Plus 24/7 (1.25A). In the last 3 years, I have only driven the car 3000 miles. The Optima SC34U in my Cobra is over 6 years old and works fine. The car has all the factory computers, a radio, and a huge Clifford security system on it. Still no problem. Girlfriend has a 6 year old Optima in her daily driven Mustang with same Clifford alarm and huge stereo. No problem. Batteries need to remain fully charged for the best performance. Once they have been run dead, they do not fully recover. I have seen many shops run car batteries dead while working on the car then jump start it to pull it out of the shop. I put a 25A smart maintainer/charger on each car I work on to keep the battery fully charged while it is being serviced. Batteries can and do fail but I think misuse/abuse is the biggest issue.
The date of purchase receipt is when the warranty starts. The date code is only used if you have no receipt. The Optima can remain fully charged if unused for up to a year. It is always a good idea to fully charge any new battery when it is purchased.
I've had an Optima in my Coupe for 5 years now with no issues.It was drained beyond dead once when the ignition got left on (at the GNRS overnight of move in). Charged in parallel with a conventional battery and it just keeps working. Sometimes sits for months without starting. On the other hand my 29 RPU has an Odyssey 680 that has been under the seat for 7 years - no problems there either. Both are kept on Battery tenders, when I remember.
Jim: I have one of the new made in Mexico Optimas, so far knock on wood I have had no real troubles with it. I do have a few complaints, concerns over this battery and it's ability / inability to be charged in a conventional way. I don't know how many times Optima Jim may have ever witnessed how a guy actually goes about charging one of these Optima batteries but my god guys, it's a freak show in most cases. First off, you end up needing another battery, now Jim, what if a feller just bought in so deep that he does not have another battery, that would be your true hope right? And then, of course if you do have another battery it's in another car, so do you really think some poor soul who is like pissed cause his battery is down is going to pull that battery out of the vehicle, doubtful. Next, I don't know if you realized how dangerous running jumper cables and linkages all over your garage is but hey, that's what is done. Now you may have a simple easy answer about how things should be done or not and or how silly a person may be for running jumper cables all about like a kid with his first toy train. But the fact is, that is what happens. Want to talk about injury liability, holy crappers Jim, and now you have a video showing a guy how to cook his Cahoneys. Whether you guys had a better battery in the past or not I don't know, but this feature of no labelling as to this goofy procedure and watch a video that you only find out about by going on sites like this is kinda nuts. This charging procedure must have harmed some poor dolt by now. My thing is this, why don't you guys create and market a charging system for this unit, you fire them up some how, at the very least include some brochures about this unit. You are after all a major electronics corporation are you not, a division of Honey Well or some other large entity, there's only really 3 large corporations that make batteries any more right? Why can't you make life easier for us, the consumer? We'll treat you good and buy your stuff. And why can't you guys make the same quality of a battery in Mexico that you made here? Yes there is a difference isn't there and why? If you changed the build go back to the old one if you can. I hope you get your apples in the apple basket and your peaches in the peach basket on this Jim, I bought this battery hoping it would be an ass kicker and not a boat anchor. Thanks for posting here and being available for us to correspond with Jim, hope you get some insight into your client bases needs and expectations. Thank's Again, Frank
Negatory on trying to charge my Optima in line with another battery. I let it charge overnight with no gain at all.
In all fairness, I put a parallel charge on another Optima from '06 and it seems to have boosted it right back up.
I had a yellow top last 12 years in my Model A. I had a red top last 8 years in my tow vehicle. I am currently running a blue top and two yellow tops. I love these batteries and really abuse them.
I really appreciate everyone's comments and feedback. MotherTrucker, you are absolutely correct about non-isolated batteries needing to be replaced in pairs. Replacing one battery at a time in a dual-battery application can shorten the lifespan of both batteries and place an unnecessary strain on a charging system. As for the variations in lifespan, temperature and use are two significant factors that will impact the useful life of any battery. Heat is very hard on all batteries, so batteries in use in the desert will typically not see the same lifespan as those in use in more temperate climates, like San Diego or Sacramento. While our distributors do their best to make sure all retail inventory is as fresh as possible, as EW indicated, the factory warranty does not begin until the day you purchase your battery and a properly-maintained battery will have no trouble sitting on a retailer's shelf for a year or longer. Whenever I check date codes at our retailers, I rarely find batteries more than a few months old. EW, I appreciate your comments, as they are right on target regarding some of the most common battery-related issues for all manufacturers. hotroddon & wildearp, I'm glad to hear you have had success with our batteries. Regular use of a quality battery tender or maintainer will help extend the life of any battery. Frank, our batteries can be charged in a traditional way. It is only when a battery (not just Optima) becomes deeply-discharged (typically below 10.5 volts), that some chargers will not recognize or charge the battery. That is when the parallel charging technique can be used to recover those batteries. I picked up three deeply-discharged YellowTops from a Jeep owner in Florida last week and my brother-in-law's 25-year old charger was easily able to put a charge into the one YellowTop that wasn't too physically damaged to be recharged safely. However, that charger only had a crank timer to limit the charge time and it no longer worked, so if left unmonitored, that charger would keep pumping amps into the battery, until it cooked the battery. If someone doesn't have another charged battery to use for parallel charging or they are fearful they might not do it correctly or may somehow injure themself in the process, they always have the option to take the battery back to their retailer, to have it charged and tested. I'm not sure what you are referring to regarding labelling, but all of our batteries are labeled with our 800 number (888-8OPTIMA) and our e-mail address (info@optimabatteries.com), if someone has a question they need answered. You are certainly not the first person to suggest we design and sell our own charger and I will forward your suggestion to the appropriate parties. While we understand that many customers would prefer to have the guesswork taken out of the equation for properly-maintaining their battery, we already deal with the misconception that a special charger is needed for our batteries, which simply isn't the case. Likewise, we also deal with the misconception that our batteries or production process has somehow been changed for the worse, which is also untrue. banginona40, what was the voltage of your battery when you started and finished charging and what kind of charger and setting were you using before? I'm glad to hear the parallel charging technique worked for you. Jim McIlvaine eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc. www.powerpacknation.com
Since Optimajim seems to be monitoring this post, why have various articles in popular magazines stated that the parallel charging is necessary and you say 'not'?? Also, why does Sears sell a battery charger specifically for AGM's? Isn't Optima an AGM?
junkyardroad, I'm sorry to hear your retailer went out of business. Our 800 number (888-8OPTIMA) and email address (info@optimabatteries.com) is printed on every battery we sell. If you have proof of purchase & your battery is still under warranty, feel free to contact us and we can assist you in finding another retailer to charge, check and replace your battery, if necessary. no55mad, I am only aware of this article about parallel charging that appeared in the September 2010 issue of Hot Rod magazine. If you know of others, please provide me with links. In that article, Bill McGuire said, However, the trouble isn't really with the battery or even, necessarily, the charger. Here's the real problem: Once the battery's voltage falls below a certain level, the charger can no longer sense the battery's presence and will refuse to deliver the current. In some cases this can occur at any point below 10.5 volts. Older and more basic chargers are more prone to this hang-up than newer, fancier models, which are equipped with control circuitry to deal with these issues. So there are two solutions available: Buy a new, expensive charger equipped with the extra brainpower, or employ a simple trick the Optima engineers laid on us. We know most folks would rather not spend more money than they need to, so if someone already has a functioning battery charger and another functioning battery, the parallel charging technique can be used and save them the expense of buying a newer charger that will recognize and charge deeply-discharged AGM batteries. Optima is an AGM battery and many manufacturers and retailers do offer AGM-specific chargers, although I cannot explain why other companies make decisions on which products they produce or sell. I should mention that many battery chargers claim to be designed for AGM batteries, but only offer a gel or AGM/gel setting. Any charger setting with gel in it may not fully-charge an AGM battery and could damage it over time, so regular lead-acid battery charger settings should be used instead. Jim McIlvaine eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc. www.youtube.com/optimabatteries
Odd... we sell Interstates at our shop and haven't had any problems, customers love 'em, and we run 'em in most everything we have, (30+ antique tractors, 3 daily drivers, lawn mowers, boat, etc).. The only thing I don't run an interstate in is my Cutlass, I have 3 Kinetics (LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE Kinetic batteries)... 2 mounted under the hood, one in the trunk.. They seem to handle all the added electronics pretty damn well (stereo, and a pretty complicated alarm) We've had a few customer cars with Optimas (enthusiast type cars, a '69 Camaro, '54 Ford, couple old buicks, etc).. , and the only problems we've had is if they're run dead.. But I never saw an advantage to running an Optima in a conventional location.. And the cars we've had them fail on leave with a regular Interstate... S/N I've got a couple "Interstate" Optima's on the shelf just for stock from the battery guy... Optima Blue, Red, and Yellow tops with interstate stickers slapped on...
I think in traditional hot rodding we look to simplify life...nothing simple about owning one of these batteries.(as we have seen just in this thread alone) next you will be telling us we need to put them to bed with milk and cookies..the dam things sound like they take more maint. and specialized,than most wifes we have had....hence the word Had. why someone would sign up for this, is beyond me. especially in seasonal vehicles that sit most of their life, and that alone is a bad life for these batteries glutton for punishment? definetly Traditional batteries sit up right, are of the lead acid arrangement..Im sticking with what works simply and cheaply. besides this is a traditional hot rod site.. nothing about this battery should be accepted for use in our types of Hot Rods..im surprised this thead hasnt been closed for being O/T..(im sure that will piss off some one) if you cant engineer a car to accept a normal battery, than its time to go back to school. (this will piss off more) sounds like they are a serious PITA! and as for the guys with customs that say they can hide them under the hood or deck lid..why bother there? you obviously have the room for a conventional battery in the conventional possition.. None of my feelings are personal to Jim, and im glad he has taken the time to come on here to lay it out for us..but it just sounds like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic No gold chainer batteries in my rides..i could buy enough batteries to power everything i own for the price of one of these
Shouldn't have mattered since the warranty is a manufacturers warranty. Any authorized dealer should've honored it.
Von Rigg Fink, I appreciate your comments and certainly don't take them personally. I understand where you are coming from and I know some folks prefer AGM batteries, because of their sealed design, which minimizes the chance of acid damage. Other folks may look at acid damage as a badge of honor that blends in well with their simulated patina paint job and fabricated rust holes (not that those people are necessarily considered traditional hot rodders). Optimas probably wouldn't look right in those vehicles from an automotive fashion standpoint, but not everyone gets caught up in appearances. However, there is no denying the fact that we sell a lot of batteries to people because they think they do look right in their vehicles, even if it is a guy with a Jeep, who should be buying a deep-cycle YellowTop because of his winch, but wants a RedTop to match his paint job. While our batteries can last up to twice as long as conventional flooded batteries, some folks have electrical issues that result in annual battery replacement, no matter what battery is under their hood. For them, buying the cheapest battery with the longest warranty and most-liberal exchange policy is probably the best option. Even though some car batteries are promoted as being maintenance-free, all batteries do require some form of maintenance to maximize lifespan and performance. The more often a vehicle is driven and the lower the parasitic draw, the less maintenance is needed. Mike, while we would prefer that all our retailers honor the factory warranty of batteries sold by their competitors, we understand why some may choose not to do so. As liberal as Costco's return policy is, you may have a hard time returning anything there with a Sam's Club receipt. Jim McIlvaine eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc. www.youtube.com/optimabatteries
Not sure if you saw the article in Hot Rod Mag. about 6 months ago on charging gell battery's. Looks like they get a false charge signal on a regular charger but if you hook up a wet cell battery in series with the Gel it will take the charge. If I remember correctly once the battery get up it about a 25% charge you can charge the Gel battery on it's own. Hope this helps: The Old Tinbasher
we used to sell optima batteries thru our store and catalog for many years. We had so many problems with them going dead we had to stop selling them. I have even gone thru about 10 of them in my personal cars over the last 8 years. We tried the yellow tops and they are no better. We are trying some hotrod battries in my latest car and we will see how they work. Bob juliano juliano's hot rods.
Tinbasher, I saw the Hot Rod article you are referencing and the technique they described does work, although the batteries mentioned in the article were not gel, but AGM. Bob J, I'm sorry to hear about the problems you had with our batteries. Do you recall the voltage level of any of those batteries when you had issues with them? What type of battery tender or maintainer were you or your customers using on those vehicles? Von Rigg Fink, thanks for the heads up on the other thread, I'll see if I can offer some assistance. Jim McIlvaine eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc. www.facebook.com/optimabatteries
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