Newbie definition needed

OK... I'll admit I'm new to the "old car scene" I bought my 1st collector car this spring...

I'm concerned about... ( after reading the Ratt Rod warning in the parts for sale section of this forum ) about not crossing that line...

my car... is / was an original 38 Nash... but finding some "needed" original parts can be kinda difficult, so I'm both making some things, & bolting on a few aftermarket parts ( like tires & wheels )

so... what exactly is the difference between a Ratt Rod & a Hot Rod ???

does the desire to not cover my oil filter with a Folgers coffee can keep me out of the cellar, or am I destine to fall down that set of steps as soon as I bolt a non correct set of tail lights on ???

help an old car newbie out & keep me on the "right path"... thanks... MAG

 

Well, 1st off welcome to the H.A.M.B., that r--rod word around here is not very welcome because that term mainly describes a poorly built, sometimes unsafe Un-traditional hot rod and that is NOT what the H.A.M.B. is about. Take a look through this site and you'll get a real good idea of what hot-rodding here is all about. It doesn't matter if you restore your 38 or modify it to fit your needs or wants. There are not that many things that will bring out the troopers here but the main 2 things are the R--Rod thing and billet parts because they are not traditional to the hot rod.

 

Sometimes the line between them and us gets blurred, but common sense will keep you on the right side here!
Welcome to the HAMB!

 

Welcome to the insanity. Hmm, how to define a "rat rod" vs. a...."hot rod"? Very difficult. Sorta like trying to tell a blind man what is seen in a beautiful painting.
And, why did "rat rod" become a commonly used term? We used to call them either "****boxes" or some other negative definition. "Jalopy" also seems to fit.
But, Oh, Oh!! That is the name used by this excellent website. This is all very diffcult. It's all a matter of who is offering an opinion.
Forget the terminology thing. Build what you want. But, build it safe. Many "rat rods" really are **** boxes...and dangerous. Some look like you'd need a tet**** shot if you got too close. Use good engineering practices and high standards of workmanship. You'll be fine. Call it what you want. And have fun.
Oh, yeah, again, WELCOME!!

 

OK... do I need to remove the "R" word from my original post to keep it from getting deleted ???

 

In this instance you will be alright because you were honestly asking for some direction. If you had posted "hey, I'm a new guy here, check out my rat rod!" then you would have caught hell for it. As far as a definition, the best way I have heard it described was by a HAMB'er (I don't remember who). It takes time and skill to build a hot rod. to build a rat rod you don't need either.

Welcome to the HAMB. you will probably waste hours on end here reading about the history of the cars we love and drooling over pictures. Lurk around & check out some of the build threads, you will get a pretty good idea of the kind of cars that are welcomed around here. Primer is not a bad thing, it usually means that you are working on the car. Check out my avatar, it has been several different shades of primer for several years as we continue to work away at it and work out the bugs. Does not stop us from rolling up the miles though.

Post up a few pictures of your Nash. Everybody on here loves pictures.

 

if your floor is made of street signs, metal spider webs replaces the gl*** in the windows, chicken wires or barn plys for roof, tractor grill in front and too much skulls for nothing, it's probably not traditional... If not you should be ok here lol

 

You'll be fine. Just don't take the terminology too serious.
Happened to all of us, that some people on the road call our cars the R word.
But that's just because they don't know any better...
Welcome to the HAMB and enjoy your stay!

 

Thanks for the info... I guess it's a good thing I decided to do my custom bumpers in stainless rather than aluminum ( was going to use aluminum to "color / texture" match my new Ansen Sprints... but one of my fabricator buddies talked me into stainless...

I started with an 1/8" custom bent license plate pan, then used 7/8" stainless pipes ( not tubes, so I'd have a bit more strength ) 5 of them, with 9/16" space between them, which matches the height of the license plate box & ( to mirror the look of the stock grill ) we welded stainless balls on the end & machined them to the radius of the pipe, & polished the pipes... put them in the bender to match the stock bumpers curve, added a kink to match where the fender center crease line is, then used 1/2" thick stainless as bumper mounts, with 7/8" holes drilled ( between 2 pieces tack welded together, so that only 1/2 of the hole is at the very front of the mounting plate ) this gives the pipes an almost floating appearance, while allowing the backs to be fully tig welded, & making a very solid bumper... of course everything is polished... front bumpers will have pads for original Nash fog lights, the rear will wear a pair of original Guide "bee hive" gl*** lense back up lights

The result is a very "art deco" look that could have been original to the car...glad I didn't go through all that work to have the car be cl***ified as a Ratt

yet I have most of the local people I talk to call what I'm doing "rat rodding"

... so just making sure I wasn't going to get banned right away

BTW... bumpers are just getting finished... running boards are off right now for reconditioning ( hate the look without them ) but bolting the aluminum wheels & new radials really changed ton the look of the car the most... I'll definitely post some pics when I get the bumpers installed... got my very 1st car show next Thrusday... hope to al least have the rear one done & installed by then... & will take a couple pics that day for sure...

 

Rat rod is just an undesirable term mostly used to define anything that is scabbed together from any old piece of **** out there.
It does not fall into the relm of traditional at all if your car is a beater (nothing wrong with that) built with tradition in mind it would be better to call it a jalopy.
Just try and pay attention to your build don't half *** it and take a little pride in what you do and you will probably be OK.

 

Ratt Rod goes "Round and Round" (obscure reference)
Hot rod is a modified car that is not made to look Crummy on purpose.

 

I would like to see more pictures of the Nash if you have some. and welcome.

 

all the pics I have right now are "before pics" I'll add some new ones next Thursday, that will define the direction I'll be going with the car...

actually these pics might look familiar, as this car was listed for sale here last year

 

That Nash is a long damn way from even being accused of being a ratrod, imo, the Nash seems to be closer to a mild custom than anything else. From what I see of it I like it.

While I have no authority to make a statement of fact, I think your car (what I see of it) fits right in on the HAMB.

(edit - Saw the pics now, NOT a ratrod)

 

nice looking Nash. You will be fine here.

It took me a few months before I understood what this place was all about. A buddy and I are building a radical custom 51 Chevy Fleetline ( this place is about radical customs, our car should fit right in ). We finished up the tail lights and rear pan so I posted a picture. I got my *** handed to me in that thread over my tail light choice. I used 99 Mercury Sable tail lights. They look great. But they simply do not fit with the board direction set by Ryan. This board is all about how it was done in the pre 1964 world complete with the pieces that would have been used at that time. It is about a time in history when cars were built by hand and not out of a catalog. It is a combination of history and art........the right pieces used the right way.

This place is a loaded with history, great tech information and as near as I can tell, some really great guys and girls who would give you the shirt off their back if you needed it. Read........read........read.............learn the rules........follow the rules.......everything will be fine.............and welcome

 

well... those were the "before pics" it'll be wearing aluminum slots & custom tube bumpers...

basically I want it to pretty much "look" stock, but maybe a bit more "edgy" the interiour is pretty nice original... I had the seats reupolstered, but used a similar fabric, & had them sewn in original s***ch patterns... my arm rests were trashed, & I rebuilt them & recovered in grey leather

I'm sure some of the Rat guys put alot of pride into them... maybe "cl***" is more the definition difference ??? & I'm really trying to keep this car cl***y looking

 

Your car looks safe. If it were a ratty looking piece of **** covered in rust and s****ing the ground with bird drop welds that no one would feel safe in then it would be a rat rod.Take pride in your car and make it look as nice as you can and you won't be "one of them".

 

Aluminum slots?? careful........ ;-)

 

Did that car come from Tony Rolfes in MN? I seem to remember looking at a similar one up your way. Awesome car, it would make a great driver as is.

Just my opinion, but please don't go too radical or do anything that can't be undone. Not many of these left after all.

 

OK... I know... but hey I bought them brand new ( maybe bthat's worse... American Racing wheels made in China... ack )

I guess to start with they were "vintage" for when I grew up... but maybe as the car progresses, some chrome tru spokes or something ???

 

Is it just me or does anyone else think of the rat bike bikes of the 70s-80s when they hear the RR thing. What pops in my head are nasty pieces of **** with so much **** bolted and stuck on them they couldn't have been safe enough to go around the block.

 

yes

like I said I want it to mostly "look" stock... anything "edgy" will be with bolt on parts, that can be replaced later if I wanted... of course I'll be keeping the original parts in storage... I'm trying to make as few permanent modifications as I can... the car is already "cool enough"

the running boards are solid, but the rubber bad... I don't like the look of the thinner "hall runner rubber" that I've seen on boards in the past... to start with, I'm going to have them sprayed in pick up truck bed liner material then add small step pads with radiused corners in stainless diamond plate in front of the 4 doors... ( unless you guys have a better idea ) I'd like them to look original as possible, & there is a guy from the Nash car club that's having original rubber strips cut... but that's both expensive, & a ton of work... & I really want to get the boards back on the car...

... the 5 speed over drive slated for next winter would also be a semi permanent install... I guess if I could find an overdrive 2 speed axel, I'd go that route... but the extra town gear of the 5 speed would also be nice for driveabilty

otherwise I'm trying to keep mods to bolt on only

 

Around here the tendency is towards steelies, wires or period 'mags' like Halibrands, Torque Thrusts or Radirs. Astros on customs are fine too. Slots are a '70s thing and the HAMB really like to cut off around '65.

There are a couple of threads on Nash - use the search tool to find them. I posted photos of one I came across last year - here they are again. The wheels are aftermarket Chrysler wires and I really like the look much more even than Tru Spokes. At least you can now have a visual. This is typical of the help and knowledge you can find on the HAMB. Enjoy your stay - it's the hot rodders best source of knowledge period, and like the lyrics in Hotel California, once you are here, 'you can check out but you can never leave'....

 

Build the car the way you want it. After all it is your car. If you are trying to please everyone on the HAMB good luck . Every one has their own opinion of what is traditional and what is not. Enjoy all of the great people and information that is shared here. Welcome

 

.....

 

That damn Nash looks really nice. It's far from "rat ****", stay the co**** and you will be ok. I give you credit for asking the question after you obviously read the rules. Around here it can turn into a mine field really fast. Welcome to HAMB and to spending way to much time cursing the threads.

 

WEASEL... that's an awesome looking car... I'm really loving how my bumpers are turning out... they look "way" cl***y... look for some pics from me when I get them installed

( the "art deco look" of the bumpers may be what forces me into a spoke type wheel down the road ??? though I still think I'll want a black wall tire for more of a "bad boy" look ???)

 

my definition for Rat Rod is: a pile of parts from behind the barn, someone thru together to make it move under it's own power, then the owner stands back and says:
"Hey guys, look what i did............"
of course that's JMO.

Those Nash's, they are good looking cars ain't they..........

 

That DEFINES a Hot Rod in my book. Traditional is based on a time period, with period correct parts. Traditionally , guys did what they could with what they could find and afford. A lot of parts had to be fabricated because there was literally no aftermarket. If you want to be "traditional" it's just a matter of what time period you're shooting for. "Traditional" is not an easy or cheap path to take, either. Many of the old performance parts are scarce and expensive and don't perform as well as some more modern parts might. Rodding a flathead Ford will never net you the same power as rodding a SBC, but that's not why you do it. It's a desire to do things they way they were done during Hot Rodding's heyday that drives most guys, not horsepower per dollar.
The difference between a Hot Rod and a Rat Rod (and you'll probably get a million different answers on this) to me are that a Hot Rod is built right with the appropriate speed parts with the desire to make the car perform better and appear as it might have during a certain time period. A Rat Rod is a car that is thrown together with mis-matched parts with no distinct focus on the overall package, and often with poor craftsmanship, more to suit a look than for performance. Unfinished doesn't necessarily mean Rat Rod, either. Rat Rods are easy, Hot Rods are not. Like some wise man said long ago, you can do it the easy way, or you can do it the right way.

 

There are a few Nash's here, including mine. Welcome to the HAMB. Along with the rat rod theme, also refrain from "bolting on" any billet parts...