Hi, Well, me and my son are getting down to the bottom of this thing and have a few questions for now please. Firsr, we bought some rocker panels for this car. They seem to want to slip over the others (a hair larger) and that's all right with me. I just want to have you guys take a look at the remaining and let us know what we should do from here. The door mullion? is intact as well as most of the rockers but they need work. Here's some pics. We do have some of the floor. We just used the plasma cutter to take it off so we can do up most of the frame without taking the whole car off of the frame. I just felt hat it would be all screwed up if we did that. I also uploaded pics of front and rear, wondering what I should do to change the system in front. So here are some pics and any advice is very much appreciated. Thanks, Numberz
I have a '51, other than my frame is beefier than yours there's not much difference. Let me say that you have a lot of floor work to take care of, wow. You're right about not taking it off the frame, and it might have helped to weld in some bracing before taking that much of the floor out. That's water under the bridge now, so as long as your door openings stay plumb and square you should be ok. As far as the front, some run airbags, others say that the Fatman Fab Mustang II frame stub is the way to go. I am going the airbag route and will be installing a Cavalier center steer power rack for steering. Do a search for Zues on here, he has his Plymouth nice and low. Also read some of the articles on WebRodder.com regarding these Plymouths for disc brakes, lowering, etc. RustyHope and Scarebird from here offer their own disc swaps as well. Search the board and you shall find your answers.
Keeping the door frames correct wil be the most important thing you can do. I would still weld some bracing to the body to maintain the door frame demensions, provided they are still right. Once the door frame demensions are secure, you will need to rebuild the body mounts. They will tie the new rockers to the frame is several locations on each side. The finished rockers will need to be an enclosed box form when done, I'm sure your store bought rockers are just covers and will not provide the support the body will need. They are probably a good starting point, you will just need to complete the job. Once the rockers are connected to the body mounts then they need to be attached to the door jams and cowl. The cowl should have a wedge shape tube support on each side running from the front door edge to the firewall at the bottom of the cowl. These provide the floor support for the toe boards. There should have been at least 2 cross braces connecting the two rockers together, the remains of one is in the picture, which would be located at the front edge of the seat. It probably attached to the rockers around a body mount. There should be at least one more cross brace near the rear door jam and may have been another at the rear package tray area. Once all the bracing is put back in then the floor pans cover it all up. Remember, the floor does not support the rockers, the rockers and cross braces support the floor. Rebuild your front suspension and install a disc brake conversion, an upper shock relocation kit, and a rack & pinoin steering, and if you car does not have a sway bar on it, put one on. The original front suspension was ahead of its time and was a very good design capable of 80+ mph. If you insist on getting it down in the dirt, you can replace the coil springs with bags or short springs. Gene
Thanks guys, I had read up on the horrors of the doors being out of line but these are good. Surprisingly, the mounts are still very strong and amazingly, seemingly independent of the floor. Numberz
Umm, what is the "airbag" route? There is a lot of lingo here that goes over my head. And what about the Mustang II set up. How does that work? Attaches to my existing frame or does the whole front get chopped off? Thanks, Numberz
Airbags are rubber air blatters used to replacethe steel coil springs. They can be deflated to lower the car or inflated to raise the car. Most have a small air compresser included with the air bag "kit" and can get a bit pricy. Most mustang II setups involve cutting off your frame or at least modifing it. The original front crossmember on your frame is likely not in the correct location for a mustang style set up. Nearly all aftermarket Mustang II set ups are actually all new fabrications derived from the early 80s Mustang. As such, most come with at least a crossmember designed for that manufacturers componets. Also parts from one manufacturer probably won't interchange with the same componet from a different manufacturer. If you need clearification on the "lingo" used please ask for specific examples for clearification. We want you to be able to understand what we are talking about. We all have areas in which we have little understanding and unless we ask, we can not learn. And sometimes my spelling is real bad....Gene
I saw a Hot Rod Dictionary on one of the rat rod sites. I was going to post it for you but now I can't find it. Maybe some else knows the link. It was pretty informative.
Don't waste your time with a Mustang II setup, the stock front suspension is more than able to hold up a V-8 and still handle well...
Thanks people, After talking with my kid, I think we have decided to go the easiest route possible. We want to enjoy the car and really would have no need to sell it to a mopar enthusiast. I think a nice Chevy engine dropped right in will give us pleasure and that is what it's all about I think. More questions later I'm sure! Thanks for the help so far... Numberz
Hi Numberz, I have a 41 Ply 4dr(very little rust) that I wanted to turn into a "CHEAP" streetrod by using everything I stripped from a'85 police optioned Diplomat(318 motor/trans/ rear & springs, front suspension, seats, steering column), I have heard from guys say to cut the 41 frame rails off in front of the firewall & mount the K-frame from the Diplomat, and others say to mount it under the frame of the 41, others say use the 41 suspension. Then I went to a shop & asked for an estament to do the front suspension & put the rear & motor/trans in & wire the car(basicly I just want it done to drive) and I was told by him that he'd rather use Fatman suspension & total would be between $7000-$10000 So.......I guess I won't get it done cheap! I was thinking I'd buy a turnkey car & sell my 41 to someone that has the equipment to do the job since my health has gotten worse I can't do any of that kind of work.
I have owned mine for about 15 years. I run a slant six,auto. My front suspension is stock. The previous owner used a2 piece AMC spindel and disc breaks. Sthe steering box is stock. No complaints out of it. No power steering, never notice it till I back up. I was also informaned that the first Gen. nova steering box is almost a direct bolt up. Just drill one hole for mounting. Yes do raise ur stock shock mount. If not a stock VW shock will interchange. I happy with mine With the slant 6 the fire wall was notched out a small amount. hoped this helped.
we are in the middle doing the same car we already pulled the body off the frame it came off amazingly easy and the doors still open and close just as they did on the frame note are was a very clean rust free example of a 41 car . i was also surprised how thin gauge the frame was made with i say pull the body off the frame we used the two mounts on the fire wall and two mounts in the trunk that the fuel tank was mounted to put a large beam on top of the car straps on both ends before we pulled the body off i put the back windows down and ran a 3rd strap to support the weight it will be a lot simplier to get to stuff with body off good luck we will probably both need it
Thought I'd bump this old thread up instead of starting a new one... I'm new here, so hello! I recently picked up a 41 Plymouth P11 (my first dodge and first pre 60's car). I overlooked a huge detail being that the rocker panels had been cutout and replaced with angle iron. At first I wasn't to concerned but now I'm getting worried. The door openings are definately plumb or square but they are relatively close (p***enger door sticks and rubs a bit and gaps are way off). I'm looking to replace the rocker panels but don't know how I would get the door openings square again. Is there some sort of system for this? The floor boards are **** to so they'll go in the process as well. By **** I mean all cut out with crumby sheet metal thrown in and no bracing under the floor. I don't need to take it back to facory looks but I want the rocker panels to look right at least. Any advice? I'm new to all this so type slowly
this seems to be the big problem on these cars mine are also trash someone just kept putting more steel on top i have gone through 3 layers so far and havent hit the rocker yet i am also having a fun time geting the doors off as all the bolts have no heads on them guess i am getting out the drill
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