Fake Buick brakes...........that stop!!!!!!

Before anyone says so, I know this is not traditional or "Hamb friendly" but I thought it may help someone out who is using GM disc brakes and was looking for a way to clean them up a bit. I have always used disc brakes on the front of my cars because I felt it was safer then the alternatives from a few years ago, I have considered using the Wilson welding backing plates and have heard many good things about them, but I had been trying to change the look of the "ugly GM metric calipers and rotors" and had even tryed the Wilwoods which I didnt feel stopped as well as the GM brakes. Im sure this has been done before, its not ground breaking by no means and I have seen some very interesting articles on here where some used original Ford backing plates. I used over the counter parts from 2 manufactors and saved the original backing plates I have and some time. So here goes:

I started with just the basic Speedway brake kit part number 910-31945 and had used these brakes for approximately 13000 miles and was very satisfied with the brakes, just not the looks. So i purchased a pair of Pete & Jakes Disc Dust Shields part #3231 in the plain black and a pair of the Buick Style rear drum covers plain part #1134 and basically 10- 1/2 inch grade 8 washers from the hardware store.

I basically pulled everything apart installed the dust covers, then reinstalled the rotor and caliper, the washers go on the studs to space the drum cover out to prevent rubbing,then I slipped the faux drum covers over the rotor and sandwiched it between the hub and the wheel. One thing you may want to watch is if your using a Chevy bolt pattern you may have to replace the lug studs for about a 1/2 inch longer stud, Im using the Ford bolt pattern and this was not a problem. Its a quick and simple fix, took about 2 hours total, and a helluva lot cheaper then the SoCal wilwood combination.

Heres a few pics, I hope this helps someone else, who is looking to clean up there GM calipers and rotors.

 

Heres a couple more pictures, I will add more after I bolt the wheels back on and sit it on the floor.

My axle looks like its been sandblasted, must be all those 80 mph bugs on the interstate.

 

the only thing i question is the wahers shimming the drum cover away from the rotor. when you bolt the wheel tight, the backside of the rim contacts the hub of the rotor. with the washers, you lose that contact and i feel the rim isnt properly supported and will work loose. i would get some aluminum wheel spacers from mr gasket instead of washers. otherwise, i like it. looks good and performs well.

 

It appears you have waaaay too much positive wheel offset to have any kind of reasonable frontend geometry. I don't know if the wheels pictured are what you run on a regular basis, or something you bolted on to show the brake components to greater advantage. It just doesn't look right and and as though it wouldn't "drive" right either. Am I missing something here?

Ray

 

those washers are a real bad idea. you're just asking to lose a wheel. if you cant figger some other way to prevent rub, i would subs***ute an 1/8" steel spacer as a better alternative.

 

While they look pretty damn cool, I'm wondering how air flow gets to the disc to cool it down.

Also, I think your wheel offset is a bit radical, puts the wheel far outside the kingpin/ground centreline.

 

Not only your brakes can"t get air to cool its looks odd with the wheel so far out from the spindle.Maybe some different wheels.

 

rp, I highly recommend not using those washers. The proper spacers are very cheap, and readily available. Not adapters, just the proper kind of spacers, available in several thicknesses. TR

 

I agree with HNSTRAY.To have the proper front wheel offset one should imagine a line following the kingpin angle .It should end at the center of the front tire at ground level.Too much off set will not allow for proper steering.

 

That jumped out at me too.

 

I have never understood this.

Choosing Discs over Drums, because they stop better.
( they dont, unless the drums are not adjusted right or overheated )

And then destroying the discs only real advantage over drums, which is that they can get rid of the heat better...

 

eh...that is alot of work for drum brake look. i would loose all that **** and show off the disc brakes. just my 2cents

 

Sheesh! You guys are tough. I get the washers vs. spacers thing, but I think overall this is a good post. I think I'll try this on the tub I'm building and see hw it works out. Thanks to the OP.

 

That much positive offset might have an undesired effect on your wheel bearings.

That much brake disc coverage will likely get your disc brakes hot enough to fade worse than drums.

Valiant effort, but the results might be, I dunno, lethal?

 

The wheels are actually the wheels I have ran, they have around 1300 miles on them, they are a Wheelsmith wheel 15- 4 1/2, I dont disagree that the backspacing is shallow at best, its the way they are made to allow a mounting surface. As of yet I havent noticed a difference in the drivabilty of the car.

The dust covers just cover the leading edge of the rotor, there is about a 1 inch gap all the way around the drum allowing air to circulate past at speed, which is alot more then SOCALs wilwood setup allows, the air vents on SoCals disc/drum cover is not functional.

I didnt choose disc over drums, disc is what I already had and I was merely trying to improve the look of what I already had. I believe there is enough space between the rotor and the drum cover to allow for a good air flow allowing the disc to remain cool. Its hard to see in the picture considering everything is black.

 

Tough crowd today, huh Roadster Pilot? Cool idea, and with a little input and constructive criticism it could really go to "the next level".

Thank you for taking the time to post this!

 

I also agree the spacers are a better choice then the washers and will replace them as soon as possible. I knew when I posted this there would be some ball busting and I have thick skin, I just wanted to show an alternative to using the overpriced SoCal Faux Buick Brake, I hope it works for you and Im glad you like it.

Thanks RP

 

Here is what it looks like together on the ground before and after.

 

If I could add anything to this, I'd suggest getting a pair of the cast aluminum scoops that I've seen added to stock early Ford drum brakes. I don't know who sells them, but I see them on eBay sometimes. Trim or drill out a pattern in the dust cover that would allow some more airflow. It might help with both looks and function.


Later, *****6

 

rp, how about a set of old VW front turn signal covers for scoops? They are not finned of course but I'm gonna try it my 26, thought I would p*** it on to you. I wasn't busting your chops at all about the thread, just dont want to see you get hurt with the washer deal. TR

 

No problem, I had thought about the vents as well, never thought of the VW turn signal covers. Thats what I like about this board, everyone has a different idea, and it gives us all access to those ideas...............I really dont like the washer idea either it worked for today to see how much space was needed and actually I can knock the castings off the caliper with the die grinder and create more then enough room.

Thanks for the VW idea............post some pics I would like to see it.

 

Looks goofy.

 

Even the real deal is offset a lot with wires.

 

Thats what I was thinking also, but I couldnt find a picture of one with wires. Also most of Bobby Alloways cars have buick drums with 15/4 1/2 rims with the same basic offset. Im not saying its right but I have driven this car as well as 3 other roadster with the same basic setup with no problems.

I had a set of Wilwood superstoppers on the car and they set the mounting surface out an additional 1" farther then the GM setup.

Thanks For Posting the picture................

 

Well, for my part, I regret that some of the posters on this thread interpret comments about the engineering principles, rather the lack threreof, as "ballbusting".

It has nothing to do with that. It's about following proven design principles of geometry and physics which is, unfortunately, so often lacking in HAMB hot rod builds. This isn't in the category of "I like flames" and "I don't", or wide whites vs blackwalls. Those are subjective issues and opinions can and will vary. No harm, no foul.

This is about OBJECTIVE criteria. You are free to ignore it because you "have driven it 1300 miles and it feels fine" and the wheels came from some pro wheel shop. A pro built wheel only suggests it is straight and true and the welding is up to snuff. It says nothing about being used in the correct application for it's particular specs.

There are builders on this site that are amazingly talented, and informed, craftsmen and I look forward everyday to seeing their work displayed. But I am inclined to think they are a minority.....many others do their thing with total disregard for the principles that govern outcome.........either because of the "Holy Grail" of Style or using any of several excuses. It seems more rooted in stubbornness and ignorance.

Ray

 

Hnstray...........dont get your shorts in a bind, I didnt disagree with you about the offset of the wheels and its relationship to the center of the spindle, I merely said that the wheels were produced by Wheelsmith and that I had not had a problem with the wheels or bearings since putting the wheels on, I have driven the car roughly 1300 miles in the last to weekends and did not notice a difference in steering, nor did I notice additional bearing wear when I tore things apart.

I whole heartedly agree there are some very talented people on the HAMB that build cars that are not only appealing to look at but are also very functional. I appreciated your imput and did not disregard what you were saying, thats part of why I posted, to get imput from others and also to have someone else's opinion.

I dont consider myself stubborn or ignorant, I try to remain open minded and learn as much as can, and I use the HAMB and its wealth of knowledge to learn a better way and to also see the errors in my own ways. Its to bad that you couldnt see around the "ballbusting" comment to realize that I also agreed with you. The offset is what it is it appears to be the same as many of the other wheel manufactors use, unfortunately they cannot produce a wire wheel with better backspacing.

 

I understand your position.......my comments were not directed solely at you.....they were in response to other's posts on your thread as well as legions of other threads/posts that fit the description.

I suppose I am guilty of what I sometimes accuse my girlfriend of doing......taking out on me her frustrations with others...........thanks for a civil reply.

Regards,
Ray

 

Not only do the bare discs look better, but......like everyone has said before me, you are just making it harder for the discs to ventilate heat. Poor engineering.

To me.....Hiding something is only cool when you cannot see what is being hidden. In this case, the calipers stick out like a sore thumb. I really can appreciate the work you have done though. My 2 cents.

 

I'm with these guys.

The problem with most disc kits on old style axles, is that you need a front wheel drive type wheel offset to get the king pin line back.

This has been going on since disc kits started decades ago. The kit makers merely stuck a disc on an old spindle and apparently never knew or cared about the king pin line.

Even back in the old days, just adding Buick drums and using 40 Ford steelies, the line was not correct, and it's not correct with Lincoln brakes either.

If a person uses 40 brakes and 40 drums with a 16 or 15 Ford steel wheel, the line is still off, but at least it is still under the tire quite a bit. **** Spadaro explained it best when he said the axle/spindle was designed for much taller wheels (like the 18" in 32). The taller the tire, the line will get under the tire more, given the same wheel offset.

Back to the OP car; JMO, but if a wheel dropped into a NYC sized pothole at speed, I'd think the tie rod could fold up...the leverage there is now tremendous on the steering components.