Does anyone else have thier front axle way aheat of the spring mount points as shown in photos. If you do do you have any suspension issues with it? Any ideas? Thanks HAMBers
That's commonly known as "spring behind " or " suicide front end " search those. Many configurations of It . There's plenty of issues with it. Some have been over come. Attachment of the spring to the wishbone a foot away from the axle is going to cause some problems and stress suspension parts on ways they were not designed to take.
You may find you need to increase the amount of springs in the pack as the leverage exerted on it will be increased. Flatman
Smofo1, With the axle cantilevered out that far from the spring, I'd very leery of the joint between the shackle and the radius rod. That joint is carrying a significant amount of force greater than a more traditional setup. More spring will aid in keeping the front end up, but might add even more stress to the joint. Just my $.02. Mike
Also agree with changed leverage on the spring that could require spring rate change, depending on what you started with. Could already be too stiff, just depends on it's original application. Did not see any evidence of a track bar, aka Panhard bar, to keep the front axle centered in the chassis. Appears to me the axle could "float" sideways on the spring shackles which would play havoc with tracking a straight line down the highway. That effect would also be magnified by the placement of the spring mid way between the axle and back end of the bones, compared to spring directly over the axle. Ray
I just got this car on Friday and she was built by the Throttlers of Salt Lake. Apparantly she raced on the salt flats so with that in mind I have the dilemma of what to do to fix this issue. I want it to stay as it was origionally built but i do want to be able to cruise with her.
Hnstray your right!! Ive been looking at the front end ever since I brought her into the garage and simple enough no track bar, as you said. Only question how could one mount it while the front axle is sitting forward a full 12". I put the car on jack stands and with enough pressure i do get lateral movement.
You may be able to put a long bolt in the wishbone end of one shackle for the rod end and attach the other end of the track bar to the frame. You may even have less cantering push due to the distance from the longest arc of the suspension movement. You might want to go heavy duty on the attachment also due to the location.
The track bar need not be at the axle itself, but could be attached to the bones as have been the spring hangers, as one possibility. As you have discovered, the key thing is to prevent sideways movement of the axle in relation to the frame. Ray
Pics show side steering, which is hardy affected by reasonable side to side movement kept in limits by shackles hanging under static load @ 45*. Shackle angle is dictated by spring eye to eye length. This was OEM for all transverse spring, side steer Fords, and it worked. What will affect side steer front end is where arc of travel of radius eod and drag link differ radically, as this will change the effective distance between the two. Wobble results. Dave
Sorry Dave, I totally disagree with your assessment that since this is side steer that axle movement isn't much of any issue. Quite the opposite, the way I seen it. ANY movement of the axle sideways will induce steering into the wheels as the drag link remains stationery and the axle and wheels move, thereby "steering" the wheels. think about how little movement it takes of the steering wheel to changes lanes in your daily driver. And that is "geared down" through the steering box ratio. A direct movement to the steering arm at the spindle of even 1/2" would move the car quickly in one direction or another, maybe both in rapid succession. The problem is magnified, I believe, by the placement of the spring shackles behind the steering linkage. If this was a stock Ford suspension setup, with the spring/shackles directly over the axle, as early Fords were built, I would agree. But even Ford put track bars on when the spring and shackles were moved ahead of the axle, causing the exaggeration of movement at the drag link. Ray
IIRC, spring movement ahead of axle in OEM coincided with change to cross steering, which definitely needs a track bar. If your shackles are @45* static with weight on spring, the side sway will be minimal. Dave On edit: What I omitted was that with 45* shackles would limit side to side movement to an amount negligible to a side steer, nor cross steer.
Have you seen any salt flats photos of your purchase at speed? With that front end configuration? Too bad that the person that sold it to you wasn't straight with you regarding handling. He had to have known about steering concerns. Just my opinion......... On another note, it's got an interesting "look".
Looks like you are going to have to do some research. I was planning on putting a suicide front end on my 27 but not with the axle so far out front. Better ask questions and go look at some other cars with suicide set ups and compare notes. Just making a comment on your other thread, I would hold off on buying a steering damper just yet. I think you have some geometry issues? Try adding the spring leaf first but plan on making some changes to that front end, that is my opinion, based on limited knowledge. Have you contacted the guy you bought the car from? How about some more pictures of the car.
Looks like you are going to have to do some research. I was planning on putting a suicide front end on my 27 but not with the axle so far out front. Better ask questions and go look at some other cars with suicide set ups and compare notes. Just making a comment on your other thread, I would hold off on buying a steering damper just yet. I think you have some geometry issues? Try adding the spring leaf first but plan on making some changes to that front end, that is my opinion, based on limited knowledge. Have you contacted the guy you bought the car from?
What if i added the track bars right below or next to the shackles itself on the bones and in addition add shocks right to the frame from the spring hangers with longer bolts, mybe it will help dampen any vertical vibration too?
How about this....a tip from a LSR who I know that was posted on another forum. Remove the shackle from one side of the spring and fab a hard mount. Not saying that is what to do but may be something to look into. If you plan on continuing to run the spring perches so far behind the axle then you may want to reinforce the wishbones on the inside with some extra steel. Another thing to consider is to fab a spring perch on the cross member and move the while spring forward a little, or as much as possible with out making it look goofy. If you do this down the road, don't forget to box the front crossmember If you put on shocks then I would use friction shocks, you bought that car for the looks and that would keep with the style more while providing some relief. On a last note, as you may have figured out, I don't think your car ran at any sanctioned event. Not SCTA for sure and not USFRA with those wheels/tires. Maybe those guys snuck out there at night or something. Hope you keep up with this thread. I would like to see you fix the problem and wear that thing out by driving it.
Smofo1, if you are having issues with your front axle you need to spell the problem out a little more specific if you need some help. Looking at your ride the first glaring issue is the lack of front shock absorbers, you need some type of shock dampening device to control the spring action. I also am not to sure of the spring shackle welded directly to the wishbone, This tube is pretty heavy but you risk the chance that it will crack and tear apart. I prefer to use a tubular bung welded thru the wishbone and use a cut down perch pin to function as an adjustable perch to relieve the spring bind. Also remember as you move the spring from the end of the wish bone you change the spring ratio. Its like a lever arm and the further away from the end the less the action. Its like you hit a small bump and the tire moves up 1" where the position of the spring only moves 3/8" . You also have an issue with the old bias ply tires, If you are running spoke wheels and old style tires it is very important to check the rims for true before mounting the tires and then have the whole unit balanced. The repoduction original design tires have a tendency to be out of balance quite a bit. The combination of out of balance and out of true would lead to a serious harmonic at speed. The last suggestion I make is to absolutely square the axles of your ride to the centerline of the vehicle. It is important to know the foot print of your axle and tires on the ground to insure that your ride tracks straight. Just adjusting the caster and toe will not necessarily cure a steering issue if the axles are not square. While you are at it check the caster is not more than 5* rearward and that the toe in is not more than 1/16" inward at the front, your camber is not adjsutable unless you bend the axle. Again if you are experiencing an issue spell it out and eveyone will pitchin to help you out.
I believe the car was built by Deacon, one of the Salt Lake Throttlers. He's not a member anymore. The car was out at the salt flats several years ago but I don't believe it raced, however I believe it did alot of midnight dounuts around the "bend in the road" camp site. HAHA.............Good times.
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