Hey Guys, My Tbird has a problem with overheating when it's sitting idling or forced to crawl forward in traffic or, say, in a parade/cruise pack. When I'm out on the road and running she's fine.. but as soon as I slow down the temp starts to climb again. I thought it might be an issue with the gauge/temp sensor reading wrong so I let it sit and idle in my garage last night. After about 20 - 30 minutes the temperature was nearing the top of the range and the engine started to labor.. so I shut her down and minutes later was greeted with the hiss of coolant purging from the overflow. What I've done so far.. New Thermostat New Water Pump New Belts Flushed water channels in the motor (with hose) New aluminum radiator All new fluids Thoughts?? I've got Back to the Fifties (huge annual show here in MN) in about a month and I'm open to ideas!
If it's fine on the road then there is obviously enough air going threw the rad to keep the engine cool. If it overheats at idle then there is obviously not enough air moving threw the rad. Are you missing the fan shroud? Are all the original factory air dams in place? Are the belts slipping, are they adjusted to correct tension? Is the fan the wrong pitch or for an application that pushes instead of pulls? Is another pulley in the system hard to turn and dragging the speed of the fan/belt down? Those are the most obvious problems when you have an issue with overheating at idle. Other things that effect engine temps are the tune of the engine. Timing is important as it cause abnormal heat to accumulate in the heads which is them transferred via the water jackets into the engine. A warped or cracked head and/or a blown head gasket can also allow the heat of combustion to escape the confines of the cylinder. One thing I did note is that you have replaced the rad. The original would have had a surge tank and would have been an extra duty rad. In other words, It was an good quality system to have. I would not trade my original Ford radiators for any aftermarket ones. Personally, I would do all I could to re-use the original equipment rad/surge tank and if that meant taking it to a rad shop for a steam clean and pressure test, so be it. jmho moe .
I would definitely compare the old and new radiators, along with the fan components. Those are your slow speed cooling system. Bad head gaskets would show up at highway speeds too as they tend to show up with the engine speeds above idle.
Run a Fan Shroud. I cut down a Plastic Shroud from Pick N Pull and my '61 ran cooler. What Temp Thermostat are you running? If you haven't signed up yet, join the VTCI and all your Tbird specific questions will be answered....
Hey guys- I'm helping Schaefer work on the car, and *may* have enabled his purchase of it. As such, I know the car and also want to help my buddy out. So, I'd like to respond to a couple of questions asked so far and maybe add a couple things. 1. The car may have but 12K original miles on it, and is running the original 390 FE. 2. The original radiator showed some signs of failure (white/green crusty bits at a couple of places). 3. The radiator in the car now is a race-spec BBF (429/460) that's been modified slightly by a local engine builder to fit the Thunderbird in question. Something to note is that the upper inlet for the new rad is smaller than original (1.25" as opposed to 1.5"). 4. There is no shroud on the car now. 5. Engine has new spark plugs, wires, and coil and was tuned by a knowledgeable local guy here. 6. While it shouldn't matter, the engine is currently running an Edelbrock 600CFM 4bbl carb. 7. As far as we know, the fan and accessories are original to the car and shouldn't be reverse pitch or adding significant drag. 8. The surge tank was leaking when the car was purchased and repaired by reputable local radiator guy. It is currently installed on the car and shows no additional signs of leakage. 9. I believe the thermostat to be 160*, but maybe Schaefer can confirm? Thanks for all the help on the HAMB!
I used to have a 58 retractable (352) that would do the same thing while doing parades on hot days so I replaced the four blade factory fan with a metal 6 or 7 blade fan made for trailor towing and it cured the problem forever even when sitting in stopped 100 degree heat. I also ran a 180 degree thermostat. and 8lb radiator cap no more problems ever. ( With no shroud, factory didn't use one.) Be sure that the block doesn't have crud or rust build up in the water passages. I had flushed the system more than once before doing a rebuild. When I tore it down it was still full of crud and rust in the lower parts of the block. It helped the cooling but still had the problem when doing stop and go untill I changed out the fan.
Hey Guys, Thanks for the tips! Following up on Biscuit's post, the thermostat is at 160 degrees. The radiator we put in was, as he mentioned, is a Ford racing radiator/trans cooler modified by a local builder here in Minnesota. The fan is a 6 or 7 blade metal fan, directly driven (clutchless) by the waterpump pulley. All the belts were replaced last year and don't show any signs of slipping. The car did, and still does have a surge tank connected to the radiator. On the Thunderbird the surge tank was external and not built into the radiator itself. Instead it connects to the block with the thermostat in-line, and then connects to the radiator via the upper radiator hose. The old one had popped a weld and was re-sealed by a local radiator shop. The car does not have a fan shroud, but didn't have one originally either. The shrouds on my vintage thunderbird were only installed on the models equipped with Air Conditioning (or so says the information I've been able to dig up). It's possible that the fan was swapped by the PO but I don't see why they would have done that... I'm looking into it. I have considered swapping to a higher flow fan as a test, and installing a shroud. Finding shrouds for this vintage Tbird is nearly impossible, but there are some avenues for both aftermarket and generic ones. I have also looked at swapping to an electric fan/shroud setup but would really rather not go there if I can avoid it.
I haven't been able to get on VTCI in about a week (am a member there) .. are you able to get into the forums? I get a Page Not Found
Put the vacuum advance hose on the driver's side port on that carb. Ignore what the Edelbrock "instructions" say. It isn't getting the added vacuum advance needed at idle to keep from over heating. That is probably the ONLY problem! The only other possibility is you set the timing with the vaccum advance still hooked up. It should be disconnected when timing with a light and then plugged back on to the carb on the left, full time vacuum port.
The early birds were known for parade heat -I finally put on an electric fan with a manual switch on my 57 (a pusher and very hard to see) - use for parades and solved my problem. but since I have an orginal generator - I do have to watch the drain on my battery.
The vacuum advance is installed on the pass side, per the instructions. I'll dig out my timing light and check the timing with the advance disconnected, and hook it up on the driver's side and see if that helps. Thanks for the idea!
I do believe someone has switched your fan. Non a/c cars came with 4 blade fan and no shroud. A/c cars came with a 7 blade fan with a fan clutch and a shroud. That is the way my 1962 Thunderbird that has a/c is. If you are looking for a fan shroud, it looks like thunderbirds used them from 1961 to 1966.
my setup keeps my 460 cool: 1. stock radiator (originally intended for use with a 352) 2. 7-blade flex-fan (no shroud) 3. 80%water/20%antifreeze, and a bottle of Water Wetter My car is stored inside all winter so I dont worry about it freezing up.
All things that you have already checked seem to be in order, I am a little suspicious of the 160 thermostat try a 180 or even 195 do as someone mentioned and engage your vac advance sooner like was intended on your car. I think you will find keeping the coolant in the rad a little longer will make a huge difference. On other thing you might want to give a shot is timing by vaccuum, worked on my 351w when all else had failed, instructions for vac timing have been on here several times already.
My 62 has AC, but had the same problem (overheated in a parade then quickly cooled at speed). I have a shroud and a clutch fan. I replaced the fan clutch and no longer have a problem. Without AC you should have a non-clutch fan, but you might want to check to be sure it hasn't been swapped. VTCI is back up, btw.
If you have aftermarket pulleys on the car make sure that you dont have the stupid underdrive pulleys on it. I quick fix that I overlooked on my car awhile ago. The water pump pulley should be overdriven from the crank pulley ie bigger crank pulley than the water pump pulley. Just a random thought.
Does the car have factory AC? Your clutch might have failed and is essentially free-spinning. The clutch is available new (it is 1961-63 T-bird only, extremely short shaft) as is the original style metal 2 piece fan shroud. The Clutch is $69.95 & the fan shroud is $99.95 www.tbirdparts.com
The non ac fan should have 5 blades. It should also have an aluminum spacer that goes between the water pump and the fan blades. This spacer pushed the fan blades closer to the radiator, and pulls more air.
I had a similar problem with my 60 Starliner. It has a stock 352. It ran like a top but heated up fast in traffic. After a year of various knowledgeable people looking into it, we discovered that the timing mark on the crank pulley had shifted about 180 degrees due to the vulcanization being torn. Not sure if your bird has this same vulcanized pulley, but you might want to look into it. -Aaron
Shifting damper pulley/timing mark is a very common problem and certainly would screw up distributor timing if taken verbatim. It is possible that the rubber has dried out to the point that the damper pulley has shifted, even if it's only got 12,000 miles on it. Adjust timing/advance using the vacuum gauge method instead of a timing light and let us know if problem is still there. Procedure should be in VTCI Forum archives at www.vintagethunderbirdclub.org - do a search for Timing and Vacuum to see if anything shows up. Oh, my other question - you mention it's a "race-spec" radiator. Does that translate into "aluminum construction"? Coefficient of heat transfer for aluminum is less than OEM brass/copper, meaning if you have an aluminum radiator it won't cool as well as an original-design one. I've seen a lot comments from people who thought just because it was great for left-turn-only driving or going 1340-feet at a time that it should be great for cruising: not necessarily the case. I presently have issues with the radiator in my '63 'Bird seeping coolant onto the limestone screenings in my pole barn. Was recored 25 years ago, coolant hasn't been changed out since '06 and probably has some acidity in it. Need to find time to yank it out and have it checked, but then again my '55 Victoria's begging for attention. And I won't even get into the issue I have with the heater core except to say external shut-off valve spliced between outlet in intake and hose to heater core should take care of that for now. BTW we still don't know what the issues were for the VTCI website to be down. Needless to say I was in withdrawls...and for the record I'm just their Technical Director, not their Webmaster.
@yutan: good point about aluminum vs. Copper/brass and efficiency. What we were told was that the radiator we got had produced 20* temp drops in street driven built BBFs. So, given the more or less stock FE in the '62, we figured we should get at least that. Interesting point about the damper shifting. I've never heard of that, but it's worth using the vacuum gauge method to be doubly sure.
If this engine is a 390 v/8 you must have a 17lb radiator pressure cap. I know ive been thru a;; that with my 1964 ford 390 and others
The Jalopy Journal
