I've got a 1960 401 Buick that is going in my '49 coupe. It came with the long snout water pump which as to go. I was going to go and buy a '62-'66, 401-425 short water pump, or so I thought. Someone told me it wouldn't fit unless I swapped the timing cover for a later model one since they changed the design in '62. Some '57-58 pumps would work, but wasn't sure exactly which one (i.e. non-AC etc.) Can someone shed some light on this. I don't want to start collecting water pumps to find out which one will fit. Thanks.
Tony the Flying Dutchman should be able to help you out for your waterpump needs. In the U.S. and Canada, call toll free 1(888)595-1110 http://www.fdrbp.com/ There is a difference in some of the timing covers and which water pumps they will accept. 62-66 is one set. 59-61 and some 57-58. But call Tony and he can get you the pump you need... <small style="font-weight: bold; font-family: arial;"><big> </big></small>
I got a shorter pump for my 364 from Carmen Faso: Carmen Faso 716.693.4090 - J&C's Parts Now I need the correct pulleys and generator bracket to make it work, if anyone knows where I can get them. I'm trying to shorten this engine to minimize the cutting on my '33 Ford pickup.
do you know what engine year the pump is for? the bracket is easy enough to make, the pulleys are gonna need to be from the correct engine, in my experience with Nailheads a shorter waterpump will need shorter crank pulleys as well. Or cutting one or two grooves off of a pulley and shimming it to work with what you have. when you deviate from what came on the motor you go down a path that can be a bear to get over. are you trying to use the single groove 364 water pump pulley? how many grooves does the crank pulley have?
I think the new pump is off a '58. Just got it this week. The bolt pattern is the same, but the snout is much shorter. The engine I have is a 1961 364. It has a double-groove crank pulley. The single-groove water pump pulley I have is way too deep for the new pump.
I have a 364 and a couple of 401's sitting in the shop. In the morning I'll see if I can figure out if a 401/425 fan pulley can be used...
The crank pulleys should be the same for the long or short waterpumps. The waterpump pulley for the long pump has a real deep dish to it so that the grooved area sits back close to the pump. If the crank pulley was pnger or shorter, then the alternator/generator would need different mounting or some crazy pulley to work. You should be ok with which ever crank pulley you have (no matter if it has one or more grooves), a pulley for a short water pump, and the factory generator or alternator bracket. The difference in the waterpumps (besides short or long) is on the drivers side-inlet area just past where the lower hose slips on, some have a longer opening in the back of the alum casting for the pump and there fore a longer opening on the front cover to match. I beleive that the later motors have the longer opening. It doesn't matter which year you use on your motor, just so long as the pump and covers match. 264-322-364-401-425; all the covers will bolt on to your motor. If you need an alternator bracket, I have a complete setup: the cast bracket (mounts to the studs on the left head), the support brace(comes off the cast bracket to the block), and the adjusting bracket (top hockey stick shaped one)
Thanks guys. I'll give these two guys a call. I'd rather work on getting the right pump rather than changing the timing cover since my motor is all rebuilt. I've got a double groove crank pulley and a later model, single groove water pump pulley. I'm hoping everything lines up with the shorter pump as well..... BTW, Tony has some killer CNC machined thermostat housings.
I have at least 3 different crank pulleys and 3 different water pump pulleys here at the shop... changing from one water pump to another may mean you need the right set to go with that setup. or else it'll take a little work and a little shimming. gen. and alt. brackets are easy enough to fab up, so I tend to not worry about those... if you have the 2 groove pulley you should (notice I said should) need the shallow single groove water pump pulley, but if these pulleys came off of a 401 or 425 and not a 364 there may be some shimming needed... stock '57 364 crankshaft pulley (single groove)... '65 401 crank pulley (2groove), yeah it's bent... '65 425 pulley (3 groove) on the left with matching 3 groove water pump pulley... the 3 water pump pulleys I have on hand... I have at least one more at the house that I know is different.. now it may take some work, but it can be overcome. I would worry about the waterpump and the crank pulleys. once you get those in line you can then adjust the generator bracket to work. and by I adjust I mean there may be a little fabrication involved.
i used a water pump off my '66 on my '60. i used JB weld to fill in the space on the back side at the outlet. been working for years. should do the trick just fine for you
Here are a couple of pics of the shorter pump mounted on my 364. Looks like I need a water pump pulley with about a 2'' dish to make things line up. Anybody got one? Also took a pic of the two pumps side by side. 49Coupe, I know what you mean about collecting water pumps. Kind of a challenge making everything work.
We made my '62-66 short waterpump work by shaving a bit off the impeller and running a thicker gasket. I'm using a 425 pulley. It looks like everything will line up with a couple of washers to space the pulley forward ever so slightly.
Just found this thread. I've just been through all these problems. My pump doesn't match my housing so I made an adaptor plate from 1/8 ally. Hope it works. Next, I didn't have a water pump pulley. I had one sent over to Oz by another HAMBer. Turns out it was a long one and I need a short one. I ended up cutting it up, together with one from the local wrecking yard and making a new one with the offset needed. I thought it was the best way considering the tyrany of distance. It all looks OK. Haven't run it yet though. Pete
I was just wondering why do you have to switch out the water pumps from the long one to the short one. I just got a 401 and was told to switch out the water pump to a 57-58 water pump?
Dear Mr Striper....? I have a 401 nailhead in need of a water pumping device. I was wondering if you have sucessefully crossed any mountains,(as mentioned) to find a suitable convieneance or in otherwords a source to obtain a new or remanufactured one too suit. Your help would be much appreciated. Thanks, Andrew
This all worked out fine. I don't have a local supplier and my engine came with a new pump. I just re read this thread. My engine is a '61 and according to the info above I have a later pump. There seems to be some good contacts here but unfortunately they are all in the US. But the good news is the Aussie dollar is way better than when I was importing most of my bits and pieces. Good luck Pete
I just went down to my local O'Rileys auto parts and picked one up off the shelf for my 63 401 nailhead. But then you may not have one of those in Australia.
Yes, I have all the water pumps and timing covers listed in my website Nailheadbuick.com so you can compare the differences. The 59-61 timing cover can use the shorter 57-58 water pump, the 58 with AC is an odd ball so stay away fro that one. Russ
I ran across this thread and since I recently purchased a early cast iron timing cover off of what I was told was a 364 I decided to see if there were any fitment problems. Much to my dismay this is what I found. Here is why the early and late pumps and timing covers dont work together.
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