I am new to the flathead game, I got my AV8 RPU recently, and have just rewired the entire thing. It is not completely finished, as some lights need hooked up and whatnot, but it has everyhting it should need to run. It is a stocker, with the 97 stromberg on it, no speed parts to speak of, but it has a Crane 12 volt conversion plate for the points. When I got it, the points, and coil were fried from the truck driver who delivered it leaving the key on. It also did not have a ballast resistor. I have since installed one. When we had the distributor out, we set the points and timing from some info I found on the internet, the points are gapped at .014-.016. After throwing a fresh battery in it, it would fire in about half a revolution and purr pretty darn good I thought. After the re-wire, everything is hooked up the same as far as the coil, ballast, and the one wire that goes to the crane 12v conversion plate, but it doesnt want to run, and smokes black smoke and pops through the exhaust. I dropped it off at my buddies place tonight for exhaust, so it will have that done on friday. I am not sure if there is a little "***" missing off of the crane conversion plate or what, because the coil wire that is on there is a regular coil wire, like the end of a plug wire, for going over a plug. The inside of the plate has nothing for this wire to go over, and the only contact it makes is on the perimeter of the wire. Basically like when you stick a drinking gl*** inside of another drinking gl***, that is all that touches, the o.d. of one, inside the i.d. of the other..... It really doesnt feel like there is any "positive engagement" of anything on this connection. Does anyone else have this setup? Am I missing a part? I am getting frustrated with this damn early dive-helmet distributor setup, and nobody I know seems to know their *** from a hole in the ground when it comes to these "early" flatheads.... The car is in Davisburg now at a buddies shop, if there is anyone in the area that knows these things and can help me, it wold be greatly appreciated! Thanks, James
I am thinking maybe I need to check the engine ground, it was moved. This would be a good place to start. James
I have a spare 37 motor I overhauled a "helmet" type for it but have been running 37 & 36 engines and use the later "crab" type. Not only are they easier to mess with, but my bucket was laid out with clearance for the flat type distributor so more room to deal with them. I do believe there is some tupe of brush from the conversion to the communtator surface of the rotor same as the original coil. I don't know as I haven't used one yet. Cleanest way to go to a flat design is to change the front cover but there are a few places now that make adapters, and a extension "****on" for the cam. I will say aftermarket points are bad news, my made in India set had mismatching contact surfaces I corrected but the spring tension was pathetic, junked them & used originals cleaned up, new set I have not used yet made in Germany, we will see. So, if they were overheated, could the spring tension be toast, if they close on the bench, maybe bounce under a few RPM's? If making a change in distributors, there is a carb base with a wiper vacuum hose access, understand that won't work right for the vacuum breaker, dist vacuum needs to come from the original manifold port
Cant Help but bumping it up cause I want to see you and your ride make it to the show on Saturday. Somebody help this man get his ride in line!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hey James- There's nothing wrong with these old ford dizzys when they're in good shape and properly set up. In fact, they're very good units. The problems come from using inferior point sets, having damaged advance springs/weights, and imroperly adjusted vacuum brakes. But your trouble sounds like it occured during re-wiring. Not knowing all of the particulars of that, it's difficult to tell what might be the matter. As for your distributor, the vacuum brake can be problematic if not correctly set. On stock motors due to their low (6-1 or so) compression ratio, the vacuum brake is really not needed- especially in a light car. I remove the spring and piston and block off the vacuum connection, eliminating the brake entirely. The principle behind this device is b***-ackwards from typical vacuum advance units. These old Ford units have a spring-loaded piston with a leather rubbing block that contacts the advance plate. This holds the plate at full retard at times of no vacuum (heavy throttle, under load) and as the vacuum rises, it overcomes the spring pressure and pulls the piston away from the advance plate allowing the distributor to advance mechanically. Again, with such a low c/r you will typically not need to retard the spark under load. Even as ****py as our fuel is these days, it's still far better than it was when these motors were new, and regular gas should work fine in this case. Flatheads typically need only about 24-26 degrees of total advance. When I do one of these motors I will locate TDC and mark the c/shaft pulley accordingly. That way I can set the timing with a timing light. It is also advantagous to find a shop with a distributor machine with the attachment to do these Ford distributors, and have it set up that way. I like to have all of the advance (24-26 degrees) in by about 1500 rpm. However setting the timing 'off the motor' as per factory proceedure will get you close. After that you can try slowly moving the timing in both dir4ections and check the result by the seat of your pants. Find where the motor runs the best and call it good. Watch your coolant temp. It can climb if too advanced, also if too retarded although the motor would be running so lousy that you'll never get to that point. You mention a Crane point plate, but I'm thinking you're speaking of the coil adapter. The OEM distributor uses two sets of points. Be sure you're using USA made point sets, not off-shore. This is important, as the foreign points are usually garbage as mentioned in other replies. The coil adapter should have a center hole that holds a sprung carbon contact. This rides on the rotors center contact band. The coil wire you describe is a plug wire, not a coil wire. The coil wire should have a male coil connector at both ends. These adapters are sold by Mac's, Speedway, etc. and run about $40 if yours needs replacing. You can also buy the carbon brush and spring seperately.
I forgot to mention, your little hauler is one sweet traditional jalopy! I'm old school, and I really like it, a lot! Also, make sure you are using a proper, high quality condenser on that distributor- another trouble spot. I always have a spare dizzy all ready to go for my motors, so when time comes for a tune-up I can just swap them out, then rebuild the removed unit at my leasure. It's handy to have that spare unit in your tool bag on the road with you. Welcome to the wonderful world of the most hot rodded motor of all time- the trusty Ford flathead V8.
Thanks for the info Rodnut, and the bumps Tiki. I really appreciate it. I am going to throw a fresh battery in it as I beleive the one it has is toast from when I got it. The truck driver who delivered it left the key on, and fried the coil, points, etc. The battery seems to be a peice of **** too. When I had a fresh bat in it out of my Daily, it fired up on like half a revolution in the past. I am going out there tomorrow afternoon with the fresh battery to see if it will run halfway ok. Rodnut- So are you saying I should remove the carbon ****on and spring, and just replace the threaded plug-a-ma-jigger with the locknut on it, and block off the vacuum port? That is what I gathered. I must also add that in my rush to get it ready to at least drive a mile or two, the generator and voltage regulator is not yet hooked up. I will see if I can get some hands to help me with this tomorrow, but doubtful. ****s when I cant reach ****. Also, my new later generator (appears to be a 39-40, only 1 field lug on generator, no ground) doesnt have a fan on it, I will see if I can put my fan/pulley on it off of the 36 gen tomm, but with my awesome luck, I doubt it will fit! I was hoping to drive it the 2.5 miles on just the battery, with no fan and not have it melt down, but my aspirations may be bigger than reality.... I will get the damn thing there if I have to drag it behind my wheelchair godammit..... Thanks Guys........ James
James- No, you've got it backwards. Do NOT eliminate the carbon contact and its spring. Those pieces are what deliver the coil energy to the distributor rotor from the coil wire. Remove those and it won't run for sure! You had mentioned a possible problem with a missing '***' on the adapter, and my guess was the spring loaded carbon contact. That's why I mentioned it. This carbon should be smooth and undamaged on the end riding against the rotors br*** contact ring. For the dizzy's vacuum brake, remove the big nut and screw ***embly and remove the spring and piston. Replace the big nut and screw to plug the hole, then remove the vacuum line from the distributor and seal the line, or plug the intake manifold port. I recommend this to people who are unfamiliar with the method of properly setting this brake. Again, with that motors low c/r, it should not be a problem. Don't get frustrated. You just aquired your rig, and it's gonna take you some time to sort it out, and learn what it's all about. I've been messing with these early Ford V8's and the cars that go with them for better than 50 years, and I've learned a ****-load along the way- but believe me, there's still a ton I don't know. That's just all part of the trip. Just relax, and enjoy the hobby. Hey, if you miss a show, there's always another one. So how did you land in the chair? Do you have hand controls in the pickup, or? My sister is paraplegic and has been chairbound for about 55 years now. She wore those godawful steel leg braces for the first 5 years. A victim of the '51 polio epidemic. She transfered to a chair when she went to college. I can dig the lone wolf deal, as I'm that way myself. But have you thought about joining a local club with flathead cars? I'd think Detroit would be heavy with them. That could be a good source of guys happy to help you out with some of the more difficult tasks. Just a thought..
Far out I Love that RPU!! I saw that in the cl***ifieds and tried my best to make it work but it was simply a bit much for me.... All I've got to add is that you have one awesome little Hot Rod and looking forward to hearing from you that you've got it on the road and cruisin'!! Good luck!! HC.
With a fresh battery, she fired right up and purrs like a kitten again! PLUS it now has exhaust!!! SOunds like it has a cam in it at idle, I dig it. It is only a single pipe for now, but it is still cool to get something else done. I tore the headlights apart and gave the inner bucket to a buddy who is a bodyman, and he found a hallogen bulb setup that we can graft to the bucket without any modifications, cutting, etc. We didnt have time to get it done, but I did find out the inner bucket of those Guide's is made of br***! I polished one up a bit, and it looks pretty darn good. Only got one done tho. No bulbs in the lights now, so the wires are just stuffed in the housings for now.... After feeding that thing around 4 gallons (!) of 50/50 coolant yesterday, I did discover one leak today. The p***enger side water pump appears to have a minor leak in the seal around the pump shaft, near the pulley. I need to source a rebuild kit. Anybody know who makes one for the 32-36 motors? I also have a question, how far does the rear wishbone (unsplit currently) move up and down, if at all? I have around 4" of clearance between the bones and the frame at it's nearest point. I plan to get a reversed eye rear spring, and take the top 3 leaves off of the stack, cut them down to about 12", and put them on the bottom, giving me around 3" or so of drop. I need to know if the bones need to be split to drop it that much in the rear... I also plan to put a reversed eye spring in the front. The truck really sits a bit to high for me to easily get into it by myself, so it needs to come down a bit. I love the way it looks, but if I cant get into it by myself, what good is it? I was suprised when it was on the lift today, I expected to see some hacked up **** and cut corners SOMEWHERE along the line, but it is quite well put together underneath.... Dont get me wrong, there is still a LOT of **** I need to fix and or change, but I will get there.... My next plan for next week is to put front bed mounts on the frame, I already cut them today. Right now, the bed is only really monted on the rear crossmember, and I dont like it. It touches the back of the cab. I plan to weld the new mounts I cut today on there ASAP, and move it back about 3/4" or so.... Finish the wiring, still needs voltage regulator and generator wired up, headlights modified, brake light switch wired and plumbed into the system, figure out if the pulley from the 36 gen with the fan will go on the 39-40 gen (I dont think it will) and decide of I am going to put an electric fan on and how to mount it, etc, etc, etc..... LOL the seat was on a 2x8 wood riser that hit the doors when you closed them as the body is not square like the home made seat riser.... I threw it in the burn pile and discovered whyt it was there! WHen we tried to put the seat back in, it wouldnt fit because the body tapers down... It was just a junkyard gem anyhow.... SO we will be sitting on pillows or couch cushions or whatever today! Oh, and the temporary gas tank in the bed is from a lawnmower, or snowmobile, or something! I dunno, it was in there when I got it! Rodnut- No, I havent put my hand controls in yet. That is in the plan for next week. It takes me forever to get **** done alot of times, and it really ****s because I just watch my summer p*** me by! I do everything I can get my hands on, but have to have help with stuff like routing the wiring under the truck, and **** I cannot reach... I have also came up with a hand-clutch for the 3 speed, I just have to mount all the ****, and figure out the linkage and hook her up. After over a year o searching, I found a workable setup. I stole most of it from Amphicar (hamb member) and did a little modification of my own. It worked for him, so I know I can make it work too. See, everybody has a different Idea for ACTUATING the clutch, that is the easy part, the just forget that you need the ability to LET IT OUT GRADUALLY... Air and hydraulics all off good options for acutation, but without getting into a setup that costs tens of thousands of dollars with rheostats and **** is pretty hard. SO, the setup I will use consists of: A motocycle clutch lever on my regualr hand control, whcih is a single lever, you push it towrds the floor for gas, towards the dash for brakes.... The cable form this lever will PULL the plunger into a Power brake booster/master cylinder setup, (through some linkage) this booster will pull vacuum from the engine to make it a bit easier, and the fluid will come out of the master clinder, and go to a wilwood slave cylinder (throw of 1 7/8") that will push or pull on the lever to actuate the clutch.... THis gives mefull control of actuating the clutch, and letting it out..... Go here to this link and scroll down a little bit to see amphicar's setup.... Mine will not need the vacuum pump as the flathead makes enough vacuum to run the booster... http://www.amphicar.com/oldspotlights.htm As for how I got in the chair, while home on leave from the army, I was hit by a car on my motorcycle, then hit a tree. Driver did not stop. Had female friends witness this, but you know how women are, they worried about me and stopped, whereas guy friends would have dropped 1 person off, and chased the car down..... I suffered a spinal cord injury, I broke my back, 8 vertabrae, had a punctured lung, then the other lung collapsed, my spine is fused from T-3 to T-8 and does not bend. I have no feeling or use of anything from the ******s down. Other than SEVERE chronic back pain, I do just fine. I am a pain tollerant mofo, but it gets bad, everyday, gets worse every year. Anyone thinking of having back surgery and getting a spinal fusion to fix a back problem, DO NOT DO IT. EVERY person I know who has had any kind of fusion sufferes from severe pain, usually worse than the problem they were trying to fix. They had toi fuse mine, or I would never have been able to sit up again..... Well, enough bellyaching, I live by 2 mottos: You either get busy living, or you get busy dying..... "live the life you love, and love the life you live"... As far a joining a car club, I have really always dreamed of it since I was about 8 years old, and have shown some interest in a local club in South Lyon, where I grew up, but they are all old dudes and they say they arent taking any members right now. I know a few of them, really cool guys, but how do they plan to keep their club alive without new blood? They KNOW I am into the same **** as them, just gay ****ing club rules I guess.... I have always had cool cars, but my last one was a street-driven race car more or less, and was too new to fit into any club I would want to join. My interest has always been in the real, old school hot rod clubs. Just like the cars I have been in love with since I was a little kid..... Would really be nice to join a club with guys of similar interests, because all of my friends are A: Chevy Guys, and B: just dont get it. They dont understand why I would sell an 8-second 1,000hp terror I built with my 2 hands, for a rickety OLD 85 hp bucket of bolts.... But then again, these guys dont get it, and probably never will.... They are alls tuck on their huge mud trucks (not much use to me, although I think they are cool) and chevelles and 69 camaros and mustangs..... I love those cars too, but I had to get back to my roots and put together (or properly finish) a REAL HOT ROD..... THis is my 4th model A, but only the 2nd which ran.... You may have seen my 31 Coupe last year at sins, it is on my avatar, and was banger powered. I sold it to buy a new tig welder though, and have missed it every second since. But it had fenders, and those HAD to go! See you in a few hours!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stop me and say hi!!!!! Sorry about the novel! James
You are an inspiration young man! I'm very impressed with your can do at***ude..as far as the car club that "isn't taking any new members" they are the losers. Keep us posted on your project and thank you for your service to our great country.
Hey James, Glad you got the dizzy thing worked out. They are fine when set up properly. I had a friend set up my last one on a 35 phaeton I had. I sent you the contact for BUBBAS ignition. He is on the Fordbarn, & I think here also. He comes very highly recomended. Good luck, & keep us updated. P.S. that battery was new when it left California!
James, Im glad you got it going and made it to the show. I too tried hard to s****e up the funds for that RPU when it was for sale, but it was meant to be yours. What a story!! I just had back surgery a week ago and am recovering from that right now. I can not imagine the pain of having that many fusions. I only had a blown disc repaired.... Kinda puts things into perspective. Sad to hear that ended your Army career, my Navy days are pretty much over as well. Good on ya for getting her up and out, it's a kick *** RPU!!
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