Im in the process of getting parts for my 28 tudor has anyone ever considered building a chassis out of stainless . A lot of the work i do is marine repairs and fabrication I know stainless can be a bit brittle and a real pain to work with but im thinking if done right would make a bueatiful chassis when polished. im considering this instead of chrome cause i have heard that after chroming you can get some harding of the metal and stress cracks the car is gonna be all black inside and out so i want to add some accent through chrome and stainless of course i ask this after i bought the steel for the chassis any input would really be helpful thanks
it can be done but you will have to plan to make all the parts for it. You would also want to pre polish most parts before they are welded together to save costs on polishing.
Stress/flex = Work harden = brittle & snap. Unless it was trailer show pony and not really driven I'd stick with the painted mild steel option. Just my 2c. Cheers, Drewfus
Ford (and maybe others?) built some stainless cars back in the thirties. The bodies were stainless but I'm not sure of the undercarriage. Anyone know?
I guess it was just the body panels after all....not the frame. http://www.deloreanmotorcar.com/dmc/otherss.htm
making the parts is not a problem the polishing will be done in my shop have done quite a bit of it the work hardening does concern me im fimiliar with stainless but not in a chassis application my experience is mostly marine applications but they build hairpins, batwings ,exhaust and the like out of it mostly concerned if it will hold up in use and its gonna get plenty of that thanks bill
If I were really sold on the stainless look I would take a regular steel frame and have it flame sprayed with stainless. It may be a little harder to polish but there would be no problem with durability.
Mild steel will work harden too, just like any other metal. You will have no problems with strength or durability with stainless steel. The actual fabrication on the other hand, will be very labor intensive....
I wonder if there is a variant on the alloy that will give you better fatigue resistance. If you can find a metallurgist to ask that would be the best. Sometimes college professors get interested in answering questions like this for free. .
another place you might ask is one of the places that makes the stainless control arms for mII suspensions. If that alloy is strong enough for the controlarms it should be good for the chassis
the new R&C (july05) has a dearborn duece project with a polished stamped stainless steel frame. it was built for Ford by Hot Rods & Horsepower
I think Roth's original Mysterion had a drilled chromed chassis and the reason it was torn apart was because of cracking from the hardening that took place during the chroming process . I heard the clone is drilled polished stainless
Drilling or putting diamonds, my preference in the rail will allow it to flex better without cracking. Don't forget to passivate the welds. Hardening from embrittlement doesn't occur in frame rails, because of chroming,it only happens in hardened steels and sometimes in aluminum alloys when they're electro stripped. Having said that, some modern stainless will flex and twist pretty well, check out which grades give best results and servicability, after all they use it for supporting cables on suspension bridges.
ask 38chevy454... the OFFICIAL hamb metallurgist. as for hydrogen embrittlement when you chrome plate, i believe the physics of it is the same as when you zinc plate something. our go-karts at work use zinc plate (gold passivate) socket head cap screws, which need to be de-embrittled after plating. otherwise the heads turn straight off the bastards! anyway, my point is that there definitely IS a de-embrittling process available, whether they have tanks big enough for a chassis might be the question. my concern with stainless, as much as for it's structural suitability, would be that with "plenty" of use, it will look like shit in no time. obviously, if you want to polish it, you want it to look good, but it won't look good for long. on the other hand, you can attack chrome plate with a wire brush and none would be the wiser... i wouldn't do stainless, to be honest.
So you're buildin' a show car? Chrome chassis is show car stuff. If you got steel just build it with steel and chrome the stuff you can bolt on. Nuts bolts etc. or use stainless hardware and polish it. A stainless chassis can be done, and has been. A little too high zoot for my tast but to each his own. Remember one thing stainless warps real bad when you weld it.
I was going to do the same thing, until I priced stainless box tubing, and if your a garage builder buying a smaller quanity, they wack you hard.
I know a guy has a Lamborghini kit car (?!) with a 540 inch Donovan and a stainless tube frame with all stainless hardware. Has held up fine to that monster motor. It's all in the welding of the stainless.
I believe Chassis Engineering in West Branch, Iowa built one years ago. They used to do whole chassis (usually in mild steel), now they only do suspension parts. Give them a call and see how tough it was. Maybe they'd have some advice on the alloy to use. Or maybe they'd tell you it's too much work? - alchemy
There is no reason that stainless should not be fine. The quality of the frame design and fabrication has more potential trouoble than the metal. It has essentially the same strength as mild steel, and the same modulus of elasticity (which means the same stiffness). Some grades of stainless are harder to fab and work with. The welds do tend to rust due to a process called sensitization. You can avoid sensitization by using stabilized grades and lower carbon grades. Most stainless is still 75-90% iron, it is just the added 10-20% chromium that gives it the corrosion resistance. Stainless will not work harden any more than mild steel when it is in the elastic stress region. Elastic region is where there is no permanent deformation, which your frame better not get any permanent yielding. If the frame yields, stainless can work harden faster than mild steel, but both work harden. Plating causing embrittlement is only a problem for heat treated steels, such as springs or some other components. Frames are not heat treated and they do no have susceptibility to hydrogen embrittlement. You can bake the parts after plating to help reduce the embrittlement. Stainless or mild steel can both develop fatigue cracks. No real difference there. So in conclusion, use stainless of you want. It should be designed so it is similar to mild steel. Use good fabrication and proper welding. Polish to your heart's content.
The de-embrittling process involves merely heating the item to 450 degrees, for 3 or 4 hours, to burn off the free hydrogen particles (on a molecular level) that lurk beneath the plating, and which cause the brittelness. The sooner it is done after plating the more effective it is.
450 degrees for 24 hours or 1300 degrees for 1 hour. Should be done within an hour of leaving the plating tank.
ok thats something i can go with ill order the material this week and of course post some pics thanks bill
For The Extra Cost Of The Stainless, You Get A Rust Proof Chassis, That You Don't Have To Paint! Let Us Know How Much More It Cost To Build, When You Are Done With It.
You can also diamond cut the frame or circles, which are stronger, in the verticle sections to reduce weight and improve flex. Make sure you use all stainless fasteners, though.
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