Ok fellas, this is my first ground up build from something that didnt exist previously. Usually i have a manual, book or some sort of reference from how it was before. This is a 1928 Model A Tudor, vanilla drivetrain with 350/350 combo but traditional style, no power anything of course and utilizing mostly old ford parts in the interior, 39 column, 41 coupe wheel, etc. So the questions I have a pretty straight forward, but for my first time and having a stripped down application, the books dont even help too much. Q#1: All of the painless manuals start out by having me pick a turn signal switch from which to run a decent amount of wires through which plugs into the column. Since I dont have a newer column with any plugs, can I just wire each one where they go, or are they run together because power is fed to the group? No real explanation when you have a custom application. Q#2: Do I need a starter relay? I have a HEI distributor and basic chevy starter/altenator/etc. Again not real clear as to options here. I have laid out all of the wires and where they will go, fuseblock is mounted and everything looks good, just the technical details I want to get right so I dont chase gremlins down the road. Maybe dumb rookie questions, but we have to learn somewhere. I am more versed on my old 6 volt flatheads and straight 8, this is my first 350 build, and even though simple, a whole new ballgame for me. Any help is much appreciated.
You don't really need a column quick connector with that old style column. Your turn signal switch will most likely be a aftermarket style clamp on type, so if you ever had to pull the column, you just unclamp the T/S switch. A connector is just for factory assembly IMO I have never needed a starter relay on a sbc, but there are many that are using them.
i know i dont need it with this column, but all of the manuals run everything through that plug for the column, can i just basically pretend it isnt there? As for the relay, what is the advantage disadvantage? Just learning, these things seem to be written as if you already know everything. Les
does your car have turn signals and brake lights? if so, those wires in the Painless wiring harness will have to be connected. what are you using for turn signal switch?
Not quite sure what you mean.. On a "normal" signal switch from say 50-70s that uses only one pair of taillights with dual filiment bulbs, the brake light wire does get fed into/through the T/S switch. Also the horn wire, dash indicator "arrow" lights (which are actually also the front turn signals.) Lets say you tried to use a very stark add on T/S switch from the 40s or so. Those were just signals, and not tied in with the brake lights. They are also not set up for dash indicator arrow lights. The bad thing is that these need a seperate light/filament in the rear for each side. So you'd need 3 filiments per side in the rear. The horn wire will be seperate with the 39 column., either with a 39 box or with a modern box. A modern box requires some mods on the column, because the wire that went down the hollow 39 inner shaft and out the bottom of the box, needs to be changed to a side exit. Start relays are used for hot start probs as well as loss of current on long wiring runs on other vehicles.
Though I am using a 39 column and 41 steering wheel, I am not using the horn havent decided if I am going to run turn signals yet. This is where I decide based on what I have and have to work with. Right now, I may just go with out as it was originally, which would mean I could strip out a lot of wires. The plug in which the wires go into in the illustration only need to come together to plug into the column right? Or are they brought together so power is distributed to the group of wires? I guess bottom line is, can i not use the plug, or does it have a function I am not seeing other than being able to "plug in" to the column connector (which I dont have)
Wait, are you wiring from scratch or using a Painless(tm) harness? If you're using a Painless harness, then do what they say regarding the relay. As to the column, since you're not using a late model column, then you'll have to improvise a bit - I'd suggest you call your harness manufacturer and ask THEM for advice. No?
[QUOTEThe plug in which the wires go into in the illustration only need to come together to plug into the column right? Or are they brought together so power is distributed to the group of wires?][/QUOTE] A "plug" is a convienence. If you have a 39 column, and no signals and no horn, then there is no need for anything at the column. A simple hot rod column with signals and a horn will have these wires going to it; -LF sig ( left dash arrow can be attached to this wire) -RF sig ( rt dash arrow can be attached to this wire) -LR sig/brake wire -RR sig/brake wire -wire coming in from brake light switch. (has power with brakes on) -horn wire -wire from 4-way hazard flasher. -wire from reg flasher With all those wires, a plug is easier, rather than splicing. But can be done without a plug. I would not run a car without signals, and I am not a safety nut. People are too distracted. Maybe our small hot rod lights are not very good, but small signals are better than none. IMO
Thanks F&J...good info. Guess I will get a nice turn signal unit. With that though, there still really wont be a harness "plug" so I suppose just wire up to that.
+1 on calling Painless Wiring and explain what you have stated here to them - isn't that the obvious thing to do?
I'll address the starter relay issue.... The starter solenoid draws a lot of juice.....typically, 30A+....that much current would kill your ignition switch in no time....not to mention the voltage loss in the wires.... The starter relay provides for a more solid signal to the starter solenoid. On a side note....this does not apply to your HEI (it gets the full 12V all the time).....the starter relay is sometimes used to apply full voltage to your coil during cranking. As some may recall, older ign systems used a resistor wire (GM) or resitor (Jeep, Chrysler, etc) to drop the voltage to the coil during normal operation...the starter relay applies full voltage to the coil to improve starting.
Good luck with you wiring project, I'll never understand how it works, most instructions cause more questions than answers.
are you running a turn signal switch? I would. if so you can always use the "signal flare 800" like they are saying, that has 5-6 wires which are easily identified as said before, and no you don't need a plug although it does make it easier to trouble shoot later if something goes wrong.
The wire from the starter switch to the starter solenoid only excites the solenoid and doesn't draw 30+ amps.
Wiring a car from scratch is not that difficult. The trick is to break it down into circuits instead of looking at the entire schematic. 1 circuit at a time, study it and understand the flow. Wire it and move on to the next. You don't need any wires in your steering column to make your car run. So no you don't need a connector. You need to understand the brake/turn signal circuit to understand the need for all those seemingly 1 way connections. I actually tore apart a turnsignal switch to understand the circuit. It's an ingenous design of contacts that directs the power coming into the column to the appropriate combination of turn/brake light wires. Remember break it down, it's not that hard
This is what the old timers like me learned to wire a hotrod from. I really like it because the diagram breaks it up into systems which is exactly how a novice should do it. Running an alternator? no sweat. Just wire the charging system using a different diagram for the alternator that you choose. I think most guys wire the ignition system first just so that they can get it started and make some noise, then they worry about lights and charging. I can't help you with the HEI but it's pretty simple too. I'm sure some one has a diagram for that particular ignition system. I always suggest that you make your own diagram on a piece of paper similar to the one above. Locate the electrical components on the paper approximately where they will be mounted on your car. Then just connect the dots.With that in your head and hands it will be pretty easy and if you ever have a problem the system will be burned into your brain and you don't have to call a 1-800 number for help. If you think about the wiring like this, you can wire a Studebaker engine with a Chrysler generator and a 40 Ford headlight switch. Try and buy a commercial harness for that.
I built mine from a $99 NW Autowire (Moses Lake, Wa.) 12 ckt. hotrod kit. The kit came with fuse block with relays and flasher, plus a really clear and easy wiring schematic for GM, Ford, Mopar. I used an aftermarket clamp on the column turn signal kit, which also came with a nice wiring disgram, and the two mated together nicely. Took me a couple days to wire the whole car including all the gauges and sending units. It was my first time at a complete wiring job, and I found it super easy!
If you are running the 350/350 combo you don,t need starter relay,only maybe a horn relay if big amp draw.You will need a key switch with start side.Those signal switchs wire as they say your wires are coded.Ign hot when turned on to hei.dist. Just go step by step.One wire alt to starter pos battery lug and any other power needs.
The Jalopy Journal
