Air bags, the good and the bad

I have considered running bags on my Caddy and have heard a few people say their not worth the trouble.Some builders told me they spend a lot of time just fixing them,they leak etc, etc.Are they worth doing on a driver?Whats the lowest you can ( or should)drop a car without them and still drive it without tearing shit up?Right now I`m about 6" off the ground and only scrape my pipes,I figure if I remove them( bellflower tips) i can go another inch or so.I dont worry about bottoming out as much as I do about ripping out the oil pan and mufflers.Any thoughts on this?

 

IF ... and I do stress IF .... they are done right then they are just as reliable as stationary suspension... I'm lucky to have had the 2 airbagged vehicles I have owned done right.. and my truck was even a daily driver for 3 years with no problems and my bel air that I have right now hasn't had any problems at all with the airbags in the 5 months I have had it bagged. DONT take the cheap way out and everything should be fine: good valves, good fittings, hard lined, and good compressors or even nitrogen... Just like anythign you do to your car ... if its not done right your going to have problems.

 

If they're right, they're rad! I just picked up my first vehicle w/ bags (64 chevy Truck) and it rides like a new car. I like the bags so much in fact, that we're having a HAMB Bag Northwest to do my wagon.

I do reccomend running two tanks and two pumps. The price difference isn't huge and it makes a difference.

check out www.suicidedoors.com for the best prices I've found.

 

I think the problem for me is that there is only one guy I know of around here that I would trust to install them and he has been in ill health so that might not happen. And I dont want to attempt something like that myself.And then there are the people that say bags are for weed, groceries etc,. Not that I care what anyone thinks but there has be a reason they say that.....QUOTE=Tony Bones]If they're right, they're rad! I just picked up my first vehicle w/ bags (64 chevy Truck) and it rides like a new car. I like the bags so much in fact, that we're having a HAMB Bag Northwest to do my wagon.

I do reccomend running two tanks and two pumps. The price difference isn't huge and it makes a difference.

check out www.suicidedoors.com for the best prices I've found.[/QUOTE]

 

I run one decent sized tank and in my old truck I had two full size compressed nitrogen tanks... On my bel air I am running a engine driven compressor which fills my tank in about 15 to 20 seconds to 175 psi compared to 2 small compressors taking about 5 minutes or more sometimes. And like Tony said ... my bel air drives so much smoother with bags...

 

Heres a few other pics of the bag setup that I have on my bel air. It's all s-10 truck suspension up front ... spindles and disc brakes etc etc. And the engine pic you can see the engine driven compressor.

 

on the ground pics.

 

I know you allways get what you pay for,,but is the ride that much better? I was told a good set-up installed would run me about $3,500...that seems a lot to to pull it up to some car show and drop it on the frame... and my Caddy allready rides pretty nice.So is it worth it? And what about you "anti "bag guys..your being awfully silent.

 

If it rides good and YOUR happy with YOUR car the way it is I would leave it alone. To me it was worth it because I just like having adjustable suspension at the flip of a switch I've had 2 airbagged and one hydraulics vehicle and loved them all. BUT it is pricey to get them done RIGHT ... and I have seen some BAD BAD jobs done on airbags before where I couldnt believe the people were driving things that unsafe.

 

it really depends on what you're buying for your ride.


2,800 is what we normally charge for all parts, and an install on an s10.

here's a list of what you need:

Compressor
valves
Air tank
bags
bag mounts (front rear)
air line
power line
switches.


it can be done as cheap, or as pricey as you want, but remember, you want dependability.

I've had 4 bagged trucks, and i've only blown 1 bag in the 40,000 miles so far. I cought a metal stake threw the a-arm on i-69 outside of indy last year.


A tirepatch and plug held that bag for 330 miles at 50psi! with bumps making a little over 70 psi.


i highly suggest bagging your ride. To the folks that say "bags are for groceries" ... so is their mini van, that they're pobably driving right then. if not, juice is for breakfast, springs are for beds.

really it's all about what you want from your ride. My truck lays the rockers on the ground, so with out air, i couldn't go anywhere.

 

first if you need someone you can trust to do bags you should talk to Lou. he knows his shit and could do you right. now with that said i stand on the line with bags. they are nice if you do everything right the first time. screw up a little and they'll be the bigest pain in the ass ever. you are in the same boat i'm in with the buick another 1-2" and the stance would be perfect. i'm not baggin the buick the front is going down another 2" the rear another inch. if it's a problem i will run air shocks to the rear with a small onboard compressor. as far as the other concerns you can always build a skid plate to protect the oil pan and just find someone who really knows how to tuck the exhaust up tight and you shouldn't have a problem there. i know alot of people with bags done right that have not had a single problems. i've also known aot of folks with shitty done bags and they were always broke and ended up costing more in repairs thaan doing it right to begin with. now i gave you both sides and probably didn't help a bit...ken....

 

I guess I could play devils advocate. I am not a big fan of the air bag, yes they are fun to play with and probably the best way to "lay frame" if that is what you are into. BUT and I do stress BUT, if you are doing them for ride quality alone save your cash and buy a set of Bilstiens. The air spring cannot ride any better than a proplerly set up coil spring. In fact I know for a fact that I can set up a suspension to deliver better ride quality through shock and spring selection on any vehicle over air bags and still come in well under the air bag budget.

But I digress.

Air bags are very popular and those that dig them are very vocal about them. So much in fact that companies like Mercedes Benz now sells more of thier Airmatic suspensions over the much superior Active Body Control which has proven itself the better ride and better handling suspension option. Lexus, Audi and such are also offering adjustable air suspension systems on their cars and Lux Crossover vehicles for and extra "BLING" factor. But I assure you that none of those systems shares any componentry or similarity to the common hot rod type systems available. But companies like Air Ride Technology are doing their best to improve the breed. There is a system that uses linear potentiometers on each wheel to insure that the exact same ride height is achieved every time regardless of air pressure, ambient temprature and load to maintain proper wheel alignment.

Installation and quality parts are everything and that takes money. You may also have to play with shocks and shock location, bag size and what not to acheive the ride quality you want at the ride height you want. Quality lines, valves and a hell of a good compressor (engine driven is the real way to go anymore) along with some carefull planning and forthought will go a long way to making this stuff last.

I could go on about spring rate and bag sizing, but I have covered that in other posts very similar to this. PM me if you want more.

 

i completely agree that being bagged isn't as good of a ride as a coil over set up, but as compaired to a full lowering spring shackle, flip hit, it rides 100x better than a steel drop.

 

I geuss I kind of flip-flop on it,but I do think it would look great slammed.Just wanted to hear the pros and cons before I decided...and then try to find someone who can do it if IF I decide to go ahead with it.

 

You may be missing the point of this place. Doing shit yourself is what it's all about man. Get a bunch of your buddies together and make it happen. That's what I'm doing. We'll have a good time, get the car bagged, and everyone will learn something.

Pardon the bad cliche', but JUST DO IT!

 

There are a lot of things I`m willing to do myself but when it comes to something like that wich can put myself and others at serious risk I`d rather hand it over to someone with a LOT of experience, thats all.....I`m learning how to do sheet metal fabrication and if I fuck that up it just LOOKS bad,,and start over again Driving a 5,600 lb land yacht at 60 mph and having my front end go out,well, thats a different story

 

it's super easy to do though!


if you can insert a tube into a hole, you can do it.

all everything we do we've been using the new parker rubber air line, and the barbed fittings, so you Litterly SLIP the rubber over a brass fitting that has barbs on it, and it won't pull back off.

If you've done your own gas lines, brake lines, you can do this stuff too.

 

I don't think running the lines and hooking it up is the hard part. Least not for me. It's the fabrication involved.

least for my car. No "bolt" on bag kits for 53's. Or I'd ahve one already.

 

swap the front end to an s10 set up, and we can have you a bolt on kit in a hurry though!

 

Point taken and a good one at that. So...this is why you make templates of your brackets, cut them out, and then take them to someone w/ a big, honking TIG welder to get really good penetration. This will help you feel safe while rollin' down Crenshaw sippin' on 'Cognac while pimpin and mackin and doing all those other funny sounding things they do in rap songs

 

but rappers ride on hydrolics.

 

Me too, Air ride has a kit for a 64 but not for a 65 Caddy,and can you bag just the rear end first and the front later?Sorry for what might seem like stupid questions but no one I know has bags so theres nobody here with any experience

 

yes, you can bag just the rear now , and the front later.


it won't be MUCH cheaper but you can do it that way.


although it's more common for fornt then rear.

 

Thats what I did on mine ... all s-10 makes it so much easier but everything was still fabbed for mine but there is alot of realy good s-10 kits out there... that and having some disc brakes on the front of a big car sure is nice.

 

I'm having a similar debate for my 63 wagon- I want to add drag blocks to the back but I don't know if hydros or bags would be better. I had bags on my 63 bel air sedan, done 'the cheap way' and I would NEVER EVER again cheap out on an airbag system. Air is such a small molecule that it escapes from lines and fittings very easily. I would pull into my drive way with the bags full and the car sitting 11" off the ground that way the next moring i wouldn't have to wait to fill the tank- but i'd come out and it would be sitting on the frame. That fuckin sucks. If I go bags I'm going to have 3 of the 5 gallon tanks and 2 viars with stainless lines and electric switches for sure.

 

sorry for chiming in but i was reading this thread because this subject intrests me. i'm very seriously thinking about bagging my buick.

_JEY..... would you mind telling and or suggesting parts i would need for a setup (tanks, compressor(s), valves. i've helped friends install hydraulics back in the day. this seems kinda along the lines. any help would be appreciated.

_T

 

tanks? anything will work. I like to go with something with 6 ports on it.

4 ports (one for each bag) 1 port for a fill port from compressors, and one left over, incause you wanna put a shreader back up valve on it.

I found a smoking deal on semi-truck air tanks, so i used those, and machined my own 4 port air manifold for it, but that's a different story...

Don't pay more than $70.00 for a tank.


Compressors: Viar 450's, hands down are the best 12v compressors you can find, run TWO of them, (otherwise it takes FOREVER to air up a tank) ($200.00 i think? each) if not, i suggest engine driven set ups. The york 210 and 209 are VERY popular (www.onboardair.com) you can find them in volvo's and old ford cars/trucks for AC units. Get the pulley for your style belt, run a OIL TRAP about 2 foot from the compressor ...

A pressure switch anything between 150-175 is good (10 bucks)

valves. This is a very touchy subject. it's like brand loyalty out there for valves... here's a list of some good ones:

SMC, Evalves, GC, AFC, Airlift, and some others. the bigger orface you have the more air that will flow, the faster it will raise lower. I am running 3/8" on mine, and it's pretty fast, 1/2" will be TOOO fast to control in my book, but some guys like it fast... valves are anywhere from 35 - 55 dollars each. You will need 2 valves for each bag in most cases. there are some two way valves out there, but they're usually slow.


Bags, i mentioned before ... slam, airlift, firestone, connetich about 90.00 ish each for bags.


Airline - i swear by parker 801 air line. it's rubber, uv rated, and EASY to work with. Works with parkers barbed fittings. about 50 cents a foot, for 3/8" (I.D stuff) or you can run, braided steel (good for heat, header area etc), D.O.T plastic line (like they use on semi's) etc. PLastic is the cheapest, braided is the most... fittings, depends on what you run. try to "map" out the system so you use the least amount of fittings. People tend to forget about the fittings when building a system, and i will tell you , i can be pricey. For all the barbed fittings i have on my latest truck, i have $150.00 into fittings alone.


Also, a good water trap before the tank is nice, keeps them from rusting and from water getting into the valves.


Let me know if you need anything else.

check out these places:

www.suicidedoors.com
www.bagsandbrackets.com
www.airliftco.com

they have a lot of parts out there. and sometimes it's cheaper to piece it gether depending on what you can find locally.


Jey

 

and here is a diagram to explain set ups too...

 

I have a buddy who owns a semi-truck repair place, what else could be scavenged from semi's for a bag system besides the tanks?

 

I'm gonna be bagging my Buick 1954 soon, I was wondering if anyone could answer my question..

Will the enclosed driveshaft cause me any problems when lifting or dropping my ride???